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Selecting the right dinghy is a pretty tough task. No dinghy does is all well and it's a big bundle of compromises.
To start, I listed my requirements and then ran the three main options (home built, store-bought, inflatable) against that list....
Requirements
1) Row and sail well. If it can mount an outboard, that is a neutral asset.
2) It must be able to provision the boat, so large carrying capacity is a must
3) Seaworthy. This dinghy may well wind up serving as lifeboat.
4) Ease of repair
5) Durability / longevity
6) Enjoyable to use (The real reason we all want a dink!)
Why buy an inflatable?
1) Lightweight
2) Easy to store
Why not an inflatable?
1) Unless you spend big money and get big weight, they row and sail horribly. I'm not interested in an outboard at all.
2) They are high maintenance and require specialized equipment to effect significant repairs - even some minor repairs can't be fixed in the water.
3) The ocean's FULL of curious critters with lots of sharp things - in an unplanned dinghy ride, I don't think I'd be comfortable in a boat made of soft rubber.
Why buy a hard dinghy?
1) EASY.
2) Known performance and quality
3) Light weight
4) Easy to repair
Why not a purchased hard dinghy?
1) Cost - a WB10 with sail kit breaks two grand.
Why build my own?
1) It will be *exactly* what I want
2) It's good practice for other projects I'll be undertaking on the DE38
3) It's the least expensive option
4) I actually enjoy it. (OK, that's the biggest reason for building)
Why not home built?
1) Uncertain quality of build and design
2) Higher weight than a similar sized WB or inflatable
3) Time investment
So, after much deliberation and going back and forth, I opted for a home built boat.
To offset the negatives of home building, I went with a design that has been built many times with success from a designer with tremendous success designing row / sail boats using my chosen construction technique.
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What design to build?
Keeping in mind the requirements, I studied a couple hundred designs and read accounts of people building the ones I liked.
Pretty early on, I was leaning heavily towards the designs of Phil Bolger. Yes, he has his detractors, but I've had good results with his designs in the past. His sharpie hulls are ideal for stitch and glue construction and there are countless examples of his work in all corners of the world.
After a pretty convoluted route, I decided on a boat that I'm not altogether convinced will fit on the DE38. I selected the 14' Bolger Junebug for it's rowing ability and cargo capacity. At 14' X 3'3" it will be a *very* tight fit, but I'm confident I can make it work. The Junebug has a tremendous amount of initial stability that will come in handy while working on the boat and it builds fast and cheap.
On a completely unrelated note, I've wanted to build a Junebug since I was 15 years old. That had absolutely no impact on my decision at all. Nor did the fact that it'd be a great boat to take on the Texas 200 next year. Yeah, those weren't a factor at all... [Image Can Not Be Found]
I've got the plans ordered and I plan to start building on 27JUN11 and launching the boat on 3JUL11. We'll see how well that works out for me.
I will try very hard not to think I'm smarter than Mr. Bolger (I'm not) and stick to his plans (I won't.) But, I know I'll have a good time doing it.
http://www.instantboats.com/junebug.htm
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Well. The Junebug is built and sitting in the backyard waiting for paint to dry.
I made some monumentally stupid mistakes while building her, of course. One of which is I really, really don't think she'll fit *anywhere* on a DE38... But, I had a LOT of fun over the past week.
I hope to put her in the water for testing next week.
I'll post more when it's all said and done and the final adjustments are complete.
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I wondered where you were going to store that long lean thing 🙂 on downeaster 🙂 Glad you had fun building it though. 🙂
Maybe you can cut it in half and turn it into a nesting design? My thoughts on building a hard dingy have been to build a 10 to 12 ft nesting design that will store in an area only 6ft long or less. I have seen some 3 piece nesting designs (though i can't remember where at the moment) that had potential.. good rowing, sailing or motoring boats with a decent capacity to bring people or groceries to the the boat at anchor.
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Lots of dinghy talk at the moment.
My dink (pictured in the davit thread), is a Spindrift 10N, with the N for nesting. I didn't build it, but they are sold as kit plans for home builders. I don't think it would be that hard to build one, just lots of time.
These boats row and sail very well, and can fit an outboard easily. The bow section nests into the aft section so they can fit on the foredeck for going offshore. I can fit mine forward of the mast, over top of the forward hatch. I'll install some chocks before I go offshore, for inshore stuff, the davits are fine.
I like the dink very much, but if I were to build one myself, knowing what I know now, I would add about 6" of freeboard all the way around. This will also help with rowing since the oralocks are a bit low with respect to the top of my thighs when I'm setting on the mid-ship seat.
I also have the sailkit. The boat sails very well, but the rig is a PITA. It's good for racing, and the cat rig has plenty of canvas for that, but it's a bit unwieldy as a useful sailboat. The problem is the boom is too low and the sail has a sleeve that fits over the mast (the mast is in sections, two aluminum tubes and a spruce topmast). So tacking is a pain and you cant douse the sail. I am planning on cutting about 6-7" off the bottom of the sail and installing either mast hoops or parrel beads in place of the sleeve-over-the-mast setup. May also re-rig form a cat to a gunter rig or something similar.
I think these changes would make this about the perfect dinghy, if you like hard dinks, that is.
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Never thought about a low rig on a small dingy but that makes sense.. I have 5 or 6 15ft sail board masts sitting around here. Some of them are two piece. I also have 3 or 4 sails for them. I will probably rig up something with them when the time comes. That will mean that that sail will rise at the clew and with the wishbone boom clear the head of anyone sitting in the dinghy.
Argyle's davit system would allow for getting that long shape into a davit sling fairly easily also.
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"Beautiful looks" is high on my priority list for a dinghy,on equal footing with utility. It's one reason why I love the DE's as well –great looks.
A good online article also summarizing dinghy tradeoff points mentioned above,
http://www.cruisingworld.com/t.....ard-choice
Personally as looks go, minto is outstanding (although $$$$$), see http://www.richpassage.com/ric.....llery.html
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I tried going to the minto website and it locked up my browser every time I tried to open it. It looks legitimate when I google the minto dingy. Found some cool videos of it on youtube. I was using firefox so not sure what would happed with IE or Chrome.
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Scott Carle said:
I tried going to the minto website and it locked up my browser every time I tried to open it. It looks legitimate when I google the minto dingy. Found some cool videos of it on youtube. I was using firefox so not sure what would happed with IE or Chrome.
Havent had a problem with the minto site although there are a zillion jpegs on one page. here are a couple good shots.
http://www.richpassage.com/gal.....andt_1.jpg
http://www.richpassage.com/gal.....ndAG_1.jpg
http://www.richpassage.com/gal.....9_mike.jpg
http://www.richpassage.com/gal...../karen.jpg
http://www.richpassage.com/gal.....y/bill.jpg
http://www.richpassage.com/gal.....e_08_1.jpg
http://www.richpassage.com/gal.....y/matt.jpg
http://www.richpassage.com/gal.....hBlake.jpg
http://www.richpassage.com/gal.....morgan.jpg
It would be a tight fit for the length under the boom on DE32 I would guess. I couldnt do it unless I removed the dodger. Regardless unless I find one 'for cheap', this little baby is too $$$ for me (alternatively, apple stock could go to $500 to afford it 😀 ).
| Feature | Data | Feature | Data |
|---|---|---|---|
| Length | 9' | Beam | 51" |
| Weight w/o Rigging | 120 +/- 5 lbs | Positive Flotation | Under Each Seat |
| Mast | 15'6" | Sail Area | 54 sf |
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strange I can go to their website with no problem today.
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I built an El Toro (8 ft.), with slight modifications (built-in bouyancy compartments), for our tender for the DE32. We previously had one on our Ingrid when we sailed from NC round the Carib and across the Pacific. We dumped the outboard in Panama, without regrets, and have never used one since! We like sail or row to keep fit. No registration neccessary and no gas cans, smell or pollution.
On the DE32, we sit it upside down, crosswise between the dorades and the companionway hatch 'garage'. It extends a little way past the cabin, either side, to but doesn't get in the way atall. I'll see if I have any photos. Made of good quality hardware store 1/4" ply with cypress for the solid bits (very lightweight and rotproof). Taped seams and sheathed with very lightweight glass/epoxy for protection. Someone gave us the spars (racing ones!) and I made the sail. I don't think the overall cost was more than $200 - $300.
We just did a month's shake-down cruise offshore to the Bahamas and back with a bit of everything weather-wise. Very pleased with her performance with only a few minor adjustments/changes to make.
I had made-up some Sunbrella 'funnels' that lace onto the bimini sides for water collection - which worked pretty well. We filled one tank in a single stormy night in the Abacos. I can send pics of that if anyone is interested.
Tim - 'Pelli' DE32 Oriental,NC
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Wow, great info. To solve the tippy-ness of hard dinghy's, anyone use the inflatable skirt-tubes? Like this, http://www.dinghydogs.com/Text.....rison.html
(Currently I have an inflatable PVC dinghy with 6HP outboard and do not like the dinghy at all. This year or next, I will definitely get or build a hard dinghy, and later get a sailing kit setup.)
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We don't have one of these, but I have seen them and I love the idea (though I've heard that boats that do many things don't do any one thing very well) -- Portland Pudgy.
This is a dinghy that rows, sails, takes an outboard, and has a lifeboat kit for going offshore. They are not cheap, at all, and to buy the sail kit and lifeboat kit would propbably be more expensive than just buying a lifeboat and a sailing dinghy! Haha. But, it's a cool idea and worth checking out. I hope to find one used one day, if only anyone would sell one!
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The choices continue..
On sailnet.com is this comment: "I have been in a Fatty Knees dinghy,and it lacks the form stability of our Dyer Midget. This is likely due to the rounded hull,compared to the Dyer which is slab sided and flat-bottomed (with a slight V-shape). Also,unlike the Fatty Knees (which is a chopper gun dinghy),the Dyer is hand laid glass. The Dyers have been in production for decades and there is usually a good supply on the used market,often at reasonable prices especially if you find one that needs a little refurb. JohnRPollard"
The Midget is.. I guess about $2k - 3k ?
| The Dyer Dhow "Midget",the smallest and most popular of the line,is the perfect tender and day sailor for most auxiliaries and cruisers. The versatile 7'11" "Midget" will carry three people,extra duffles,even the dog. She is easy to handle when puttering around,and equally easy to de-rig and stow away. You may choose a rowing model (with 2 oarlock positions),a sailing model and a "convertible" model with a daggerboard trunk ready to accept the sailing rig later. A 7'9" "Lo-shear Midget" with 17 1/2" depth is also available for deck house storage under the boom. | |||||||||||||
|
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We just purchased a 12 ft inflatable a couple months ago.. got it for half price new so I'm pretty happy. with it not fully inflated to pressure because I had to use a shop vac to inflate it I was almost able to get it up on plane with just a 3.5hp 4stroke. I was seriously impressed. The large size also leaves it very stable compared to some of the smaller ones I have been in. The floor needs 11.6 psi to get it rigid and in its designed v shape so I have hopes that it will handle decently with the small engine with the three of us in it. I ran out of fuel puttering around the marina and it rowed back quite well. Nothing like a kayak or real dingy but very respectable in my opinion. its a west marine brand something 350 model and weighs about 100 lbs. I have it and the engine on it hanging on the dingy davits right now and it is pretty funny. It's just a bit longer than the boat is wide. For long trips I think it will be deflated and rolled up and lashed to deck just forward of the mast. With if we are lucky the hard dingy we don't have yet being nested and lashed down over that.
I am still wanting a hard dingy though. my thought is a two piece nesting dingy of about 10ft that you can actually row either end independently if used separately. I also definitely want a basic sailing rig for it. I will most likely build one myself with plywood and stitch and glue technique. If I find plans I like I will buy them other wise will probably design it myself.
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Scott - If you want a really good sailing and general purpose dinghy (10 or 12ft versions), I would highly recommend Graham Byrne's Spindrift. I think someone has already mentioned this (above). He is in Pamlico co and has been teaching boatbuilding at the community college here for over 20 years. There is a nesting version (a friend and I built one in Fiji a while back). We have a standard 10' one that my wife built at his evening classes 20 years ago and still as good as new, it was our tender on our Peterson 44 for 6 years, has been raced as well! Lots of bouyancy - if you do turn it over, you can up-end it and sail right off and bail at your leisure. The original had a sleeve sail on a sinlge or two piece mast. I made a gunter rig, to keep the spars short (almost stowable in the dinghy) and the sail reefable. I believe Graham still has the 'mold frame' at the community college, with paterns for the various parts, so all you have to do, is cut out the ply and temporarily screw them onto the frame before gluing/taping the seems. One year, they mostly built one at the Beaufort Wooden boat festival, in a day, as a demo!!
I would think twice about nesting though. The guy we built the one for in Fiji, found it too much trouble and ended up finding a way to get it on his boat in one piece. We had no trouble getting it onto the Peterson with the main halyard.
I can get you photos of it if you are interested.
Tim 'Pelli' DE32
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I'm definitely interested.
I would prefer not having nesting but there just isn't the room on a DE for it for a boat of that size
. 🙂 unless I rigged side davits on her and hung the dingy from them.
For a sail rig I would be using sailboard masts and sails. I picked up 5 or 6 masts both one piece and 2 piece and 4 sails for a sailboard about 5 years ago. So That would what I would use for sails since I already have them.
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Scott Carle said:
We just purchased a 12 ft inflatable [....] I had to use a shop vac to inflate it
What's that about, your foot get too tired of pumping? Ha.
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Jonathan Cline said:
Scott Carle said:
We just purchased a 12 ft inflatable [....] I had to use a shop vac to inflate it
What's that about, your foot get too tired of pumping? Ha.
Rofl.... I have two foot pumps and didn't even try to use one. Used the midget shop vac we keep on board to inflate it to test it. Then went to west marine and found a 12 volt inflater on sale for 30 some dollars that you can preset the psi and it will automatically cut out at that pressure..
Sadly I have to purchase another inflator's of some kind as unlike the tubes that inflate to 3.6psi the floor is one of the inflatable V shape floors and inflates to 11.6 psi.. just wow.. I didn't realise that all standard foot pumps and electric inflator's normally only pump between 2 to 4 psi. West marine has one that does in the catalogue that cost 199 dollars (its the next model up from what I bought on sale for 30 ish dollars) with port supply I could get it for 149 but damn that is just pricey. I asked the manager if they could do any better and he is seeing what he can do. The boat moves with the floor inflated to a few lbs psi but I can tell that it would go 100% better if filled to spec.. I almost got it on plane with just a 3.5 hp 4 stroke the other day with just me in it. With it fully inflated I think I could actually get it on plane.
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Bacon_Grease said:
Why not a purchased hard dinghy?
1) Cost - a WB10 with sail kit breaks two grand.
Now I am curious. Given that a hard dinghy can be build for under $500, what is the price justification for hard dinghies which cost over $3k? That is: what are the professional dinghy builders doing which the home builder is not doing? Presumably the professional builder has considerable price advantage due to volume production (jigs, molds, etc) which the home builder will never have since the build is a one-off. How are the professional built dinghies significantly better?
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They're glass (which means large initial costs for the moulds etc), they use custom fittings instead of 'off the shelf' or home made stuff, and aluminium (instead of wooden) spars. etc etc. Ply dinghies are lighter too. The mould frames I made-up for the El Toro were from scrap wood/ply. Scott has some pics of the ElToro and the 10' Spindrift which I haven't found a way to reduce in size or get them onto this site. He may have a way/time to post them or I can send them to you if you are interested.
Tim 'Pelli' DE32
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When I get a few moments free to do so I will upload the pics that tim sent me.
Scott
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Jonathan Cline said:
Bacon_Grease said:
Why not a purchased hard dinghy?
1) Cost - a WB10 with sail kit breaks two grand.Now I am curious. Given that a hard dinghy can be build for under $500, what is the price justification for hard dinghies which cost over $3k? That is: what are the professional dinghy builders doing which the home builder is not doing? Presumably the professional builder has considerable price advantage due to volume production (jigs, molds, etc) which the home builder will never have since the build is a one-off. How are the professional built dinghies significantly better?
When you buy a commercial dink, you're paying for the builder / designer's experience and knowledge as well as his time plus the time you don't spend building the boat. Had I done this "on the clock" at work, the JuneBug would have cost five grand in my labor alone.
Some may argue that the hull shapes found in boats like the Walker Bay are "better" than those found on a home built Bolger Nymph (I'm just listing boats I have experience with...) I can see their point, though I disagree.
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Jonathan Cline said:
Wow, great info. To solve the tippy-ness of hard dinghy's, anyone use the inflatable skirt-tubes? Like this, http://www.dinghydogs.com/Text.....rison.html
(Currently I have an inflatable PVC dinghy with 6HP outboard and do not like the dinghy at all. This year or next, I will definitely get or build a hard dinghy, and later get a sailing kit setup.)
That's certainly one way to go. I plan on putting eyes along the gunwhales of my dinghy and attaching the fenders from the big boat to them for reserve stability / buoyancy. Not only is it cheap and easy, it also gives you something to do with those annoying and voluminous fenders when you're offshore...
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Scott Carle said:
I wondered where you were going to store that long lean thing 🙂 on downeaster 🙂 Glad you had fun building it though. 🙂
Maybe you can cut it in half and turn it into a nesting design? My thoughts on building a hard dingy have been to build a 10 to 12 ft nesting design that will store in an area only 6ft long or less. I have seen some 3 piece nesting designs (though i can't remember where at the moment) that had potential.. good rowing, sailing or motoring boats with a decent capacity to bring people or groceries to the the boat at anchor.
Yes, once I get the sailing kit built, I plan on putting in a pair of bulkheads and cutting her in half.
After some rowing tests, I cannot express how impressed I was with this boat. An absolute MASSIVE amount of initial stability, perfect manners under oars and a capacity for hauling gear that will boggle the mind (1,000 pounds) in a boat that's extremely comfortable to sit in.
The plan, as I jokingly refer to it, is to store the two halves on the main cabin trunk. I really want to avoid using the stern davits.
In addition to the continued work on the Junebug, I'll be building a Bolger Tortoise as a test bed. I'm quite intrigued by the box boat and I'll gladly throw two sheets of plywood at a concept that looks fun. If my measurements are correct, this boat will fit on the stern seat of the 38 and serve as a perch for the helmsman. (Keep in mind, I thought I could fit a 14' X 3'3" boat on deck, so that statement is suspect [Image Can Not Be Found])
I'm researching all the suggested designs, they all look very promising and should work very well.
The discussion about sailing rigs - instead of the super complicated rigs we see on commercial dinks, I'm going with a balanced lug rig for my Junebug and, probably, a lateen sail for the Tortoise. This will keep the spars short, the rig simple and cost down. I'll make the sail out of polytarp so I can cheaply experiment with shapes / sizes. Once I'm happy, I'll have a real sail made.
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I have been using the new inflatable I purchased and I am less that happy with the way when it and the little 3.5 hp outboard are hung in the davits how much it pulls the stern down and the bow up of Valkyr. I think it sits about 2 inchs down at the stern with the dingy lifted up. The dingy and motor weight about 140 lbs together.
I am impressed with the dingy. It is a 12ft inflatable with a high pressure floor that when inflated gives the bottom of the boat a rigid V shape in the water with a nicely curved and flaring v bow. Handles great and even paddles ok for an inflatable. Bottom inflates to 11.6lbs
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Well,the Tortoise is built and tested. She's not perfect,but she's far better than anticipated.
The boat does,in fact,sit *in* the cockpit on the DE38 easily as I had hoped,though a little high for a helm seat.
The boat itself –she rows quite well. Rowing by myself,I was able to keep a decent pace with short,easy strokes and the boat tracked incredibly well. She handled a short chop gracefully and the wakes were no issue.
Loaded to 500 pounds [Image Can Not Be Found] the boat was even more fun to row! She tracked and carried much better with the added weight. Of course,it was VERY tight quarters and I probably couldn't make a long,deep stroke comfortably,though it wouldn't do any good. The ride was smooth and dry.
Stability –the boat really came into her own there. I could stand on the gunwhale (amidship) and not put the side underwater. However,I could put the bow underwater quite easily by standing in the forward two feet. I'll install a foredeck similar to the aft deck to remedy this.
Sailing –OK,I screwed up twice. First issue,I was feeling lazy and rather than building a rudder,I had the bright idea of using one of the 7'oars in a stern oarlock as the rudder. It works,but only when moving quickly. Second,the mast partner popped off the side of the boat,so I need to improve that. The breaking wasn't enough to dismast me,but I did drop the sail and scull in with the steering oar with quite a bit of success. What sailing I did do,I enjoyed immensely,though.
The bilgeboard was moderately helpful while rowing,but it wasn't terribly windy. If I were rowing with a crosswind,I'd definitely have it in the water to minimize leeway.
Overall,I'm extremely impressed by that tiny little boat. I wouldn't use her as the main dinghy,but she takes up so little space (6'6" X 3'3") and was so inexpensive ($75 total and 20-30 hours building her) I can't imagine not having her aboard.
(How do I upload images from my hard drive for this forum?)
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Here are the instructions for how to upload photos 🙂
have fun 🙂
http://downeasteryachts.com/fo.....oad-images
scott
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