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Hello everyone. I just bought a de 32. It's a 1978 in bad shape seems the hull rig and engine are good though. There's some serious water intrusion in the foam core. I figured it was closed cell and wouldn't " take up" to much water, but I'm wrong the foam (corelite?) Is soaked and caused delamination. So I've ripped the headliner out, order 1/2' corecell a, and some 1708 fiberglass.(not sure of the layup schedule 2 or 3 layers? I'm doing this from the inside out ) My plan is to recore the whole strbd side and totally fill in the huge windows I plan to add (2) nfm 6x26 bronze ports in place of the huge windows.
I was wondering the cross " beams" on the coach roof does any one know what behind them? Are they structual? I'm gonna prop up the coach roof and side decks from below when I cut out all the old foam. I was gonna run strong backs, and was wondering if a rafter for to aft catching three of the beams would suffice to hold the weight? The mast is up. Any advice or experience will be appreciated. Also if anything jumps out as wrong with this plan please do tell. Thanks to all..
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The cross beams are hollow I believe.. a C cross section with lips that are fiberglassed to roof. And yes they are load bearing due to the shape and curve in them. They spread the load to the cabin sides while keeping the roof from bowing down.
You could probably use one of the vibrating cutting tools like this to remove them. https://www.harborfreight.com/variable-speed-oscillating-multi-tool-63113.html
This thing is absolutely stellar for crazy cuts and thin cuts. I have this cheap harbor freight one and love it. If you like a more quality unit I would look at this highly rated porter cable or other name brand. I consider one of this as one of the top 10 power tools in my arsenal. It gives you in a small form factor a saw that can cut precision small and thin cuts in many materials and in place cuts without dissembling stuff a lot of the time. It also will act as a small sander for precision shaping.
You should be able to just cut the fiberglass glue line flush with the roof to remove the beams if you decide to do that and then epoxy them back in place. I have seen where people replaced them with laminated wood beams and that was beautiful if much heavier. I don't think I would remove them though as if you do you risk the roof deforming while your replacing the foam and then not getting it to bow up when you replace the beams.
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Yes, I already have the harbour freight tool. Your right that and my 20v DeWalt shop vac are the 2 boat tools I use most. I'm reconsidering doing my decks from the top down rather then inside out the outermost skin is VERY thin. Just not sure how to make the top layer look nice? I get I'll take the top skin off ,scrape out the core sand smooth, add a layer of 1708, then a the corecell. Then put the skin back on but not sure how to hide all the cuts
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Don Casey's boat maintenance books have very good and clear sections on doing this type of job.
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Thanks
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First and foremost pardon my mispelling and grammar...So put up some bracing and started cutting out the inner skin to find how bad the water intrusion is...well I ordered a lot of material thinking I was gonna have to record with 1/2 inch core cell..looks as if there's no delaminatn in the present foam I figure I'll stick a space heater on it for a few days,dry it and epoxy over it with 1708.. Maybe 2 layers? I have to do all the way up to the bed birth so this should be fun. Here's a few pics if any one was wondering what's " back there" any input and or suggestions will be helpful. I thought that was closed cell foam it's soaked!
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arggg... long post just disappeared. sigh got to love browsers and the internet.
ok.. making a long post short as I have run out of time. Water will not penetrate closed cell foam that is properly cured but water vapor will. So as a liquid it won't penetrate it but as a gas it will. So water gets into core around screw or bolt and then sun hits deck and heats it up turning it to vapor and it then penetrates foam core.
Drying core is difficult and long term.. as in weeks of drying. I have never tried it myself.
can crush a plug of foam to test for water in it.. see if it squeezes out when crush under extreme pressure. Or use moisture meter. 🙂
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Yes I see it's gonna take a long time to dry! The foam is soaked. if I just touch it with my finger and barely press it's like a sponge totally saturated. Hmmmm wondering if I should just recore with "real " closed cell foam corecell a seems to get the nod. I have never used it though. I'm still trying to get my head around how much water it has soaked up. Had a space heater on it 12 hrs it's drying but at this rate it's gonna be a long process as you said.
I'm also thinking the coach roof seems to be poorly designed. Im considering takeing out the c beams and replaceing with wood although I hate to add all that weight. Also a compression post at the galley island. And knees aft of the aft lower shroud chain plate and replaceing the compression post at the mast...wheeew! I might as well just cut the hull to deck joint and build a proper coach at this point! I'm .I'm wondering if I replace the c beams and transfer the load to the cabin sides how will I tie all that together. Feels like a trampoline when working on the coach roof, but a the core samples I've taken show no delam. The p.o has through bolted half inch plexiglass (or lexan) which I will be fiberglassing over and putting nfm 7x26" bronze ports. It was in preparation for that which led to discover the soaking wet core. I'm planning on a circumnavigation but there seems to be a lot of designer structural issues going on here.
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Do you think a simple layer or 2 of 1708 underneath the entire coach roof plus the compression post would do the trick? Would save alot of money and turn my nightmare into a bad dream haha.
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Haha Boy oh boy was I aggravated last night when I posted that!
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So my boat has what I think is a stock compression post about 2 ft forward of the galley in front of the sink. It was used to hang one end of the saloon table on. It also acts as a support for the roof there. My roof is not so much a trampoline though you can feel a very small amount of flex if you jump on it, maybe... nothing I have ever worried about or thought twice about though.
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Well thank you I'm gonna do the same. I think I may have been a little overwhelmed and over reacting.
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. I removed the old 1/2 core on the cabin sides ( from the inside) I replaced it with 1/2 double cut corecell. The core cell is great stuff very easy to cut bevel and install.i took a sample piece with 2 layers of 1708 and west system epoxy it's suprisingly strong. I'm gonna add one more layer just to be sure. I beveled the inner skin and layered the 1708 smaller to larger successively. I'm happy with it. I did from the vee birth aft to the big windows. Using an angle grinder it takes minutes to cut and bevel,but makes insane amts of dust. My next task is to remove the windows and fill the void with fiberglass and add nfn bronze ports 6x27'. I'm still trying to figure out a way to get the first layer of glass up. I was gonna screw a piece of plywood wood with wax paper to the outside, then working from within. Lay mat then 2 layers of 1708, 1/2 corecell and 1708 after that. Then I would cut the holes for the new ports. But if I have ply and wax paper how will I hang the first layer? It won't stick to the wax paper.. any how figured share this for any one in the "same boat". And if any one has filled the windows and has advice I'd be grateful.
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So recorded with 1/2 core cell and 3 layers of 1708 while I was in there I reinforced the bulkhead tabbing with 17 oz biaxial. I cut knees to add about 3 inches of each chain plate. (I know I shoulda cut out the hull liner) but I've spoken to another owner who did the same with out cutting out the liner.heres some pics..any input on not removing the liner?
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I'm not sure I understand what you mean by hull liner? Maybe just having a slow day here 🙂
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There's a liner inside the hull the chain plates go through it and the hull. Not sure of this boat. But you know how they build the hulls and put a liner inside it? So the inside of the hull isnt actually the hull lots a liner... Ha ha I'm so bad at explanations. I haven't investigated if it's a full liner or just a liner behind the side shelves here's a pic where I have the slats numbers..
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ok so.. that is weird.. it looks like vinyl.... I have teak slats over a lot of the interior of the hull in areas like that, the vberth, starboard etc.. No liner like that, that I can tell. However a lot of areas have a second fiberglass section of the interior with a nice surface of jellcoat a few inches in from the hull itself that creates an air gap. I have never taken down the teak layer to see how much of the interior is like that vs not. However my boat design is a bit different in that I have external chain plates from the factory vs the internal ones you have. I think sometime in the late 70's before my 79 boat they changed that part of the design at the factory. I know it is documented somewhere on the website with owners talking about it or an article about the boats back in the day.
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Yes it’s not vynl it’s the fiberglass you speak of. Upon investigation seems the (I’ll refer to it as a liner) liner starts right where the underside of the catwalks are it has the ridges you see I have numbers for the slats to screw into. It then turned out 90degrees to create the shelf behind the settee and continues to form the settee and the sole to form the interior of the boat.They build the hull and drop in the tanks etc. and then place this liner over all that. Its fiberglassed to the hull in strategic locations to offer stiffness.When I was retabbing the bulk heads I noticed they weren’t tabbed into the hull liner. So I can only assume tying my knees and bulkheads into it isn’t 100%, but I hope it will offer some sort of stiffnes, even if only to eliminate hard spots..so I’m pulling the boat and stepping the mast at which time I have a few things on the agenda.
1 is to remove the old chainplates and get some bronze ones made from port town found. I’ll cut out the liner at that point and use the old plates as backing plates. And use the bronze outside..has any one had these made or an old stock set I could use?I’m looking for dimensions for possible copy ,and approx cost.
2 I’m trying to gather opinions as far as tabbing knees to the liner or if I “need” to cut that out.
3 the bowsprit! I was looking at Gracie emit steel refit and I’m looking to duplicate it I didn’t see what grade of steel or what thickness. I’d like to explore my options from stainless steel, carbon steel,Douglass fir, or the original Sitka spruce(?).
P.s im not very good at navigating the forums, and the computer stuff so forgive me if this info is listed some where, but I didn’t see it.
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P.s I’m in love with bronze how sweet would a bronze sprit be ?haha. I believe it’s about the same strength as 304ss and way more corrosion resistant. Probably not an option but would be cool to see
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Bowsprit:
Do stainless or aluminum. Mild steel is just another maintenance item that will have to be taken care of every 4 or 5 years to repaint due to rust. With the traffic your going to do over it walking up it and the anchor chain running over or alongside of it you will get a regular set if nicks and dings on it that will compromise the paint. Then rust. Aluminum is light and strong. Much stronger than the wood one.. Stainless is a tank and as easy to weld as mild steel so if thats your thing you could make it yourself.
Wood is still a good choice. They do last a long time if done right.
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Any idea of what grade and size of aluminum people have used? I’m wrapping up the fiberglass work from inside. The mast is coming down and I’m gonna pull the sprit recore the foredeck. I’m gonna research grades of aluminum and make a decision,but if you knew off had it’ll save me some leg work. While we’re in the general area...I’ve never sailed a cutter rig, and the self tending jib seems really nice. Do Most dE owners keep the boom or remove it add tracks and use the room for dinghy storage? I assume it is great for sailing inshore and in waterways and such. I’m refitting for offshore and blue water passages. What’s your 2cents on self tending vs a roller and sail tracks?
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Not sure of needed cross section for bowsprit in aluminum or steel off hand.
Cutter rig:
ok.. i have opinions on this. I love the DE38 cutter rig.. As designed it is like adding a turbo to the sail plan. Using the staysail vs not has a very noticeable impact on performance. We still have the boom. I have a love hate relationship with it. The self tending aspect is the love part. the impact on fordeck space is the hate. It does help to shape the sail. I have considered going to a boomless setup but would only try it temporarily to see how it handled before going to it totally.
The ability to just use the main and the staysail without the jib on some occasions is wonderfully lazy. No one but the guy at the helm needs to do anything when tacking. It all takes care of itself. You lose a lot of power without the jib, but the boat still handles well if slower. In stronger winds you will still get a decent amount of speed.
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