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Removing boom from staysail
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diverchick71
California
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February 14, 2016 - 4:39 pm
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Looked through the forums and didn't see anything specifc.  

Who has removed the boom on the staysail?  We are getting new sails made, want to ditch the boom.  Am looking at putting tracks along the cabin top just inside of the hand rails on the high part of the cabin top.  Looking at bout a 3 ft track, with small winches and cleats aft from there.    What have you guys done?  

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Patrick Twohig
San Diego, CA
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February 15, 2016 - 1:26 am
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I don't know about the DE38 specifically, but I do know that lots of cutter owners have done this because they want to use the foredeck for storing a dinghy, a lifeboat, or just about anything else.  I've had lots of people tell me I should do it because of the potential hazard of the staysail boom clocking somebody in the head.  I don't know why that's any more concerning than the main sail boom hitting somebody, but I guess that could go either way.

The job of the staysail boom is to help you shape the sail for varying wind conditions.  With a rigid foot, you can adjust it from more points to give the sail more belly or less belly depending on what you want to do.  I'm not an expert sailor to the point where I really mess with any of that, but that's why that boom is there.  If that's not something you find yourself doing very often and you want the storage space that badly, then I'd say get rid of the boom.

Long story short, getting rid of the boom you sacrifice some bit of control over how that sail behaves in exchange for less complication and more usable storage space on the foredeck.

For whatever it's worth, I still have my original staysail boom but never use it for its intended purpose.

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Scott Carle
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February 15, 2016 - 5:06 pm
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I have thought about tracks like that but it is a lot more work to sail as you have to tack the staysail every time you tack. Right now it is self tending. You could go for a track running across from one side of cabin top to the other for it like the main sheet track on the main. If you got a windward car? arrangement it would be sort of self tending.

 

I would love to hear how it works out. other than storage on the fore deck and clearance for the fore hatch we really like the original boom up there. It just works.

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Scott Carle DE38 Cutter s/v Valkyr
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diverchick71
California
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February 16, 2016 - 3:13 am
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Making the extra room is a big part of it.  I got rid of the dorade box over the head and installed a solar vent fan and love it.  Deck is cleaner.  I'm constantly jumping over or under the boom. It gets in the way of my hammock. (Now THAT is an important consideration...lol) I thought about the traveler but feel like I will get better shape if I run sheets like the headsail. (Still fancy a traveler for the mainsail but haven't made the jump to that yet either. 

I pulled it out and simulated the shape of I attached tracks where I have discussed and I like what I can do with it. Since we are getting new sails done seems like the time.  Was hoping to hear from someone who had done it. 

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diverchick71
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February 16, 2016 - 4:03 pm
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FWIW, I talked to a sails consultant with North sails today about the staysail.  He went along with my thoughts on removing the boom, but felt like tracks and winches were overkill and I should just sheet the clew of the sail on the existing blocks/pad eye system.  I'm trying to figure how this will work, and next calm day I'm going to take the boom off and give it a try.  I will add any updates in case anyone is interested.  Also, that is the perfect spot for the dinghy to live while underway...once we finally can say we are going to get "underway" :)  Such a looong process.  I love this boat but...damn.  

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Scott Carle
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February 16, 2016 - 4:25 pm
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If there is room then dingy should live between mast and companionway, upside down and tied down on long offshore passages. Next best would be foredeck between mast and front of cabin edge. Again upside down and tied down in its own chocks. Next best would be from dingy davits on transom. Given that we have just done short coastal sailing we have left ours in dingy davits on transom. They are easy to access and get dingy on and off sitting at dock. I'm don't think they would be easy at all if at anchor. I think that at anchor that a boom/spinnaker pole attached to the mast and used as a boom lift to pull the dingy from fore deck to water and back would be the easiest. Even just a spinnaker halyard to lift and then you to push it outboard would work ok from there but I think a pole would make it much much easier.

 

just my 2 cents worth that is really only worth about .5 cents given current unreported inflation :)

scott

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Scott Carle DE38 Cutter s/v Valkyr
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Rick
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June 13, 2016 - 10:41 pm
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OK, I know this string is old but I struggled with this one as well and came to a different conclusion. I got a new staysail made by Mack Sails and Colin and Travis (brothers and co-owners) both had differing ideas about the boom. Colin thought we could chuck the boom and wouldn't know the difference, Travis said my brother is misguided. He made the perfectly valid point that we don't sail with a loose footed main for obvious reasons; we can't control the way the sail sets in anything but beating. Reaching maybe but running would suck. He suggested that we keep the boom and even scrounged me up a new one to replace the massive old thing that came with the boat. 

I think Scott made the point that the staysail is the boat's turbo charger and told a story once of tacking into a river by simply turning the wheel. That was a big part of the decision, frankly, because I expect to be in that position a lot as we're expecting to be sailing short handed when we finally drop the dock lines.

One of the many pages I read concerning this had an "experienced" sailor on there who offered the suggestion that all the people worried about getting knocked on the head weren't paying attention and once you got used to it you'll understand why all the old working boats had them, why our boat was designed with it and why we should suck it up and keep it.

I don't have enough experience with it yet but I'm expecting I can haul it up out of the way with the topping lift, at least far enough to sling an awning or a hammock but I will  be able to tack without tending the staysail when things breeze up and I'm on watch alone.

I'm keeping it and looking forward to making it work for me. I also installed some davits on the stern which I'll use for all the coastal stuff we're going to do and I'll figure out the foredeck when we make the crossing to the Bahamas.

Rick

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jimha
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October 20, 2016 - 3:01 pm
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An interesting thread, and had to add my two cents.  At one time I thought about getting rid of the stay-sail boom and making the stay-sail larger by having the clew go aft of the mast.  I would run the sheets closer to the mid-line of the boat, in order to give better windward performance.  In the long run, I was glad that I did not do this, but kept the stay-sail boom.  Once you get used to it, it is not that scary unless you have an accidental jibe, but then you probably shouldn't of had it up anyway.  This little sail is a work horse and will add a half a knot from a beat to a reach, with the ease of self tacking.  We stored our 9 ft hard dingy athwart ships just aft of the mast.  As far as a1-Ensenada-los-Lagartos-018.jpgImage Enlarger

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hammock location, we found the best place was just aft of the mast, under the awning.

Cheers and beers,

Jim

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Jonathan Oasis
S/V OASIS
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December 2, 2016 - 2:09 am
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Boats spend the majority of the time at anchor/mooring or in a slip therefore the considerations for "the boom is in the way" also translates to:   What to do with the staysail boom when not in use.  Previously I kept it lifted in the air, just high enough so the vberth hatch could open.  I didn't even think much about it.. even when constantly stepping over it or crawling under it etc to walk portstarboard on the foredeck.   Finally I got the bright idea to lower it to the deck where it now rests, with a 1" pad underneath so the block attachment doesn't mar the deck.    Still ideally there would be a way to remove the staysail boom when not in use, then re-attach for sailing.  Or at a minimum, some type of mount to secure it near the toe rail (close to life lines).

When I hung my hammock on the foredeck I also faced this dilemna - the boom being in the way or being underfoot somewhere.

I like the idea of the boom and using it is like driving a car.. it's self-tending ability is great.  Sailing up a channel it would be very nice, sailing up a river it would be boss.

Once anchored or in a slip, why not this -- some kind of quick release might work well on the staysail stay, to release the boom at deck, remove and lower the boom to a stowing area, then reattach the staysail stay with some temporary leash.   The staysail stay is not holding up any part of the rigging, after all.  Quick release does not mean less strength, just choose one that is rated to handle the needed load.

 

Another alternative is one DE38 I saw which had re-rigged the boom to raise it 1.5' at the tack, therefore allowing much more headroom underneath it at all times from someone in the vberth or laying on the foredeck (nice even underway, for downwind sailing or motoring conditions).    There should be discussion from someone knowledgeable, about the performance change this causes, to raise the boom and sail by 1' or 2'.   This doesn't seem like much, but, wow, it really cleared a lot of space underneath it, that is plenty of vertical space to stow a deflated dinghy etc, which is definitely less than 1' tall, right.

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Eclipse
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February 21, 2017 - 9:29 pm
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Having sailed several DE38's, the first thing I did when I bought DE38 Eclipse, after ditching the Farymann, was throw the boom overboard.

I rigged the sail with a single block with a becket on the starboard deck eye-pad, a double block attached to the sail's clew and a single block on the port deck eye-pad – the sheet then forms an inverted 'V' ... from the cockpit, thru' the becket block, up to the clew block, down thru' the port block, back up to the clew block then down to the becket where it is fastened.

Couldn't be easier and works like a charm ... I can now sheet the sail in tighter than with a [lethal] boom.  Described the design to, round-the-world sailor, Hal Roth who, being familiar with the vessel, agreed with and even commended my design.

Some time later, I installed Profurl roller reefing for the stays'l and the rig works perfectly.

I may have posted pics. somewhere on this site.

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Martin – DE38 Cutter s/v Eclipse

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Scott Carle
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April 24, 2017 - 12:31 pm
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I always wanted to do that.

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Scott Carle DE38 Cutter s/v Valkyr
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