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Hello !
This is for all the 38DE sailboat owners out there. I'd like to know how big a following is here to bounce things off of.
I'll be taking ownership shortly of a 99% all new everything refit 1977 cutter. Very excited to have found one of these vessels with literally everything replaced new. All that's left is to apply new non-skid.
One missing item are the Stem scroll boards on the bow. Owner claims the boat never had them. Is there anyone that knows of anyone out there if these can be found/made or stolen? Is there a Downeast Junk yard anywhere?
Otherwise I will be forced to fabricate replica's myself. Not a big deal, just a big pain. To me this is part of the signature look of the boat and a must have.
Also does anyone have or can direct me to where to get any standing rigging specification sheets other than the factory. I have what was available from the original factory documentation. I want to convert my staysail to a roller rig.
I need the staysail forestay length. I believe it is 30'-5-1/4" Tang eye to tang eye. Can anyone absolutely confirm this? Has anyone made this conversion, I have questions. Also any recommendations on what size Roller Furling will work?
I look forward to hearing from anyone.
SV Paper Moon
Hull#33
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So there are 8 or 9 of us that I think monitor the boards fairly regularly. We have several hundred members which don't seem to follow the forums on a regular basis but will drop in to ask a question once in a while and might answer questions for a while if they see them. Lately we have one or two active topics a week with just a few posts. You can normally expect to get a response to a question in a day or two at the longest. Wether it is the response you wanted? well that is another thing 🙂 Don't get discouraged though. This website and forum hold topics and posts and pages that go back a decade and on top of that that have another decade or more of topics and posts and pages from two community websites that existed before I built this one. This site holds 20+ years of accumulated factory and owner knowledge on all the Downeaster boats. When your looking for something search in the forums here but also you need to go back to the main website http://www.downeasteryachts.com and search through the posts and pages there. There are probably close to a thousand posts and pages of information there also. Sometimes it takes to time and digging to find stuff just due to how much there is. If you post a question here and I have the time or remember something pertinent I will post a link to the appropriate page for you but sometimes it I won't know or remember or might not have time to.
Scroll boards.....
there are a lot of posts about those from people wanting to replace missing ones to people wanting repair or replace existing ones. There is no good answer other than your individual deep pockets to hire someone to make some for you or your innate artistic talent and drive to make your own at the end of the day. At least that is my takeaway on the subject after following several conversations people have had on the topic. To my knowledge there is no DE graveyard and I have only heard of one DE being cut up and scrapped after a hurricane. Seems to me that was after Katrina I think down in Louisiana maybe? So dead DE's are uncommon. They tend to get in bad shape and be bought for a steal and then refurbished and head back out rather than go to the breakers in my opinion. They are such tough and great designs that people really go out of their way to get them. As to the size of the roller furling.. something sized for a 30ft boat would probably be about right for the stay sail. About one step below what you would use on the main jib. 🙂 my recommendation is just based on what feels right to me and not on any actual numbers though.
About the stay sail stay length.
You can pull it down and measure what you have with the mast up no issues. We replaced most of our standing rigging a few years ago by ourselves at the dock but removing one stay at the time and replacing it. Took a couple days to pull, measure and replace each stay. The factory specs for it are at this link http://downeasteryachts.com/th.....-all-boats at the bottom of the page. Which ever roller you get though will have a different length based on the furling unit and how you position it. You will notice that the stay sail stay is not one length of wire from deck to mast but has a section at deck level that then terminates at boom level in a fitting before turning into the stay wire going to mast. I don't think it is rocket science but if your having issues visualizing what you want to do or how to do it you might want to get a rigger that is reputable to take a look and maybe design your conversion. I would rather do it myself than trust just any boat yard or marine mechanic guy to do it though. Most of them are idiots that have no idea what they are doing when it comes to standing rigging that isn't a straight drop in replacement and sometimes even then. Before doing it you need to know if your keeping a boom, going boomless etc.. as that will affect the design.
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I am a relatively new owner of a 1975 DE38 so feel free to contact me with any questions.
The major items of work so far have been: installed new Volvo engine, replaced standing rigging, replaced all the navigation and comms gear, upgraded the sanitary system, added a new bilge pump and am getting close to completing the installation of a windlass. I have done virtually nothing to the sailing side other than renewing the winches for jib and main plus having the sails washed and repaired as necessary. The running rigging was nearly new when I bought her about three years ago. I am by no means an expert in any of these areas, but manage to do most of it on my own. I am sure you will have your own To Do List which is a large part of the fun of owning a boat. Nice to sail her now and then, too.
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Have done all of the maintenance on my DE 38 for the last 38 yrs. Has it been that long?? If you go to page two of General Forums and lookup topic “artwork on the bow?” you will find details on making a trail board with picture. This took me about 50 man hours plus time to paint.
On repacing standing rigging, I bought SS cable 1/19 made out of nitronic 50 . Slight differences in measurements will be taken up by turnbuckles. Bought Staylocks from mail order house in England and saved about $900 in 1986.
Good luck on your new boat. She is a good honest boat that will serve you well over the years.
Cheers,
Jim
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Hey Jim,
Since you've done so much over the years. Do you have any knowledge regarding the Wood trim that goes around the cabin top? Paper Moon does not have any and there is no sign it ever had any (no patched holes) I want to add this as soon as possible.
I will be painting the wood (teak is out) so can you recommend what to use wood wise. I'm thinking either mahogany or oak. Also does it absolutely have to be screwed down to the cabin top or do you think some type of adhesive might work (not that I want to glue it down) I just hate to put screw holes thru the fiberglass.
What size moldings to use? 1/2 round? Flat with radii edges? I don't have another 38 to go measure. Just poor photo's off the internet to look at.
Leo
SV Paper Moon
Hull #33
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As far as I am aware there has never been any wood drim on the exterior of a stock DE. All wood is minimal and limited to these items (hatches, handrails, caprail and bowsprit).
hmm... I've been think on this and I think I am wrong. I think I did remove and fill holes for trim there when I first got valkyr. Yep I definitely did.. Remember using one of those self mixing caulk gun tubes of epoxy from west marine to fill the holes with when I did it.. wow memory is going. I wouldn't put it back though. just more annual maintenance 🙂 Also if your don't use teak or IPE I wouldn't bother. your lifespan is less than 1/10th as long.
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Leo
Have just finished repairing a bad spot in the eye brow. Since I could not find the right size 1/2 round to match, I made some using my table saw and router. I do like the look that the eye brows give to the boat, and that is why I kept them. I did keep them varnished for years, and believe they were made from teak. Have to agree with Scott about time spent on maintenance, so have ditched the varnish and gone to brown paint (2 part poly).. I used treated pine as it doesn’t rot as fast. If replacing the whole lot, why not just buy some half round that looks good to you.
To fasten why not use screws, bungs, and epoxy glue. Hope these ideas help.
Cheers,
Jim
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Regarding the Trail (scroll) Boards on the bow.
A Florida sailing paper "TRADEWINDS" published in St Pete Florida, featured a story in the Dec 2018 issue (page 40 - 44) detailing your quest for information.
This article is well written documented and illustrated with photos.
Web site:
http://www.southwindsmagazine.com back issues are available online.
This will provide all you will need to take on this project.
Our DE 38 (#73) does not have the Trail Boards as the previous owner removed and discarded them. They were very heavy fiberglass and putty in poor condition
Like you I am a new owner in the Downeast family. What hull # are you?
Good luck and keep us posted.
Tim
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It is personal preference on looks but I disliked the fact mine was screwed and bunged to the cabin. I really really don't like screw holes into the core. The factory didn't seal a single hole they made into and through the deck or cabin sides on the DE's .. it is the single most serious issue with these boats in my opinion. That being said I have been amazed at how old my boat is and how little issues it has had from this. It has had some though with core de-lamination in the starboard side of the cockpit and just behind the Sampson posts on the fore deck being places we have repaired. Other boats have had issues with the cabin top also. all these areas have one thing in common, factory holes drilled or cut into and through the core. We have fixed this with every project we have done that we removed and replaced hardware on Valkyr. We would gouge out the core in holes and fill with epoxy to make a full plug and then redrill for the screw/hole/bolt etc. Lot of work but I will never have to do maintenance again in those areas due to leaks into the core. It also reduces having to figure out where the boat is leaking as water ingress around a bolt has nowhere to go other than down the bolt if it happens. So fare we have never had a leak in a area we have done this with. Over all valkyr is a dry boat.
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Several years ago I removed and refurbished the 'eyebrow' trim on Argyle. I believe the wood is teak but it could be mahogany, I'm not a wood expert. It is definitely a tropical hardwood. If I was getting new stuff I would try to get the same, but there are other tropical hardwoods that are cheaper. The wood in this application doesn't have to have teak's rot resistance, but I would want the look to be similar.
The original trim strips were screwed into the outer skin, deep enough to go in to the core. I filled in all of the screw holes with epoxy (thickened west systems). When I re-applied the trim I used modern marine adhesive/sealant to attach to the hull. I used small screws that only penetrated the epoxy (filled in screw holes) less than 3/16" or so, just to hold the trim in place while adhesive cured. I used either 4200 or 4000UV as an adhesive. Don't remember. I'd recommend 4200 or something similar. I've lost faith in 4000UV (inconsistency), but the adhesive holding on the trim still looks good. 5200 has way too much strength for this application and would be difficult to remove in the future if needed. These days there's no reason to punch holes in your deck to attach something cosmetic that will never experience a load. Modern adhesives are way better than anything they had in the '70's.
I sanded down the trim to bare wood, applied a couple of applications of teak oil, let that dry for a few days, then applied a few coats Cetol Natural Teak. Looks good enough for me, but I'm not a 'show boat' kind of guy 🙂 . The Cetol still looks pretty good after around 4-5 years of not being touched, although I am in New England. In the tropics, I would strongly consider the brown paint that Jim does.
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Have just worked on eyebrow area of cabin side. I do believe this area does not have a core, but has about 1/2 inch of solid glass. Have to agree about putting holes into the core. Have used the bent nail and drill technique to hollow out the core a few times. Have always liked the look of varnish on teak. On the few pieces of teak left outside, I have used 6 coats of Flagship by Pettit, and 2coats of Awlbrte by Awlgrip. It was a hard decision to paint over a lot of the outside teak. On a side note , I used Polyurethane by Minwax over my varnished cabin sole to give a hard , shiny , slippery floor. Makes you appreciate the hand holds in rough weather.
Cheers,
Jim
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Leo,
We are located at Sunset Bay Marina in Stuart near you.
I think I know the 38 you are looking at, fine example of this breed.
I have patterns of the Trailboards (scroll) the previous owner made when he discarded the OEM Trailboards.
We are "GYPSY SOUL" 1975 DE 38 #73 Ketch.
I have left you a message.
Tim
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Hi Tim,
Thanks for replying. I have you in my phone. I'll give you a call very soon.
My 38 (to be) is in Indiantown Marina. We haul on the 18th for the survey. She's Hull 136 and yes she is a FINE example. Very well taken care of with most everything replaced new. I'm sure you know of her "Paper Moon" Pierre & Mary.
I'll do the finishing interior touches and add the systems it does not have. A/C, Refrigeration.
I'll be in Sandpiper Bay Marina. (Club Med) got a slip promised in February.
Talk soon
Paper Moon
Hull# 136
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