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We lost the rudder off of our DE 41 and none of the rudder manufacturers have the measurements or molds anymore. Can anyone give me the width (fore to aft) of the rudder at the top and at the bottom? We have been stuck in the San Francisco area now for 2 months. We can see how thick it is to be, and how long is obvious. The DE 41 and DE 38 have the same rudder. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
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(don't hold my spelling on the picture against me 
I was in a rush and needed to get out of the house quickly)
Bob,
I don't have measurements but take a look at these pictures.They will show you porportionatly the size on the boat. On valkyr the top of the rudder comes past the transom by about an inch or so if I have it pictured in my head. Sitting in the slip I can see about 2 inchs of the rudder above the water.
this first picture is of a dissasembled rudder from walts boat.
http://downeasteryachts.com/in.....er-removal
this one is a side view of a DE38 in slings showing the rudder. you can see the lines of it.
http://downeasteryachts.com/wp.....onDE38.pdf
this link is also showing the side view of a de38 out of the water.
http://downeasteryachts.com/archives/502
here is a picture of valkyr (DE38) in high resolution showing the rudder. You should be able to measure the picture from bow to stern. not including the bow sprit or any stern pulpit/dingy davits and know that it is 38 ft. Then use that to figure out how wide the rudder is. I don't think you are going to notice a big difference if you are a couple inches off in width from front to back. My advice is to look at this or have whoever is designing it for you to look at it and wing it based on the scale of rudder to boat in these pictures.
http://scottcarle.com/gallery/.....ewsIndex=3
http://scottcarle.com/gallery/.....ewsIndex=3
http://scottcarle.com/gallery/.....ewsIndex=3
ok i measured it from this picture and it is anotated now with measurements
The top green line on the rudder is 17.42 inches long
the middle green line is 12.19 inches long
the bottom one is 21.2 inches long.
They are on the picture as well. I would say that they are all within an inch of real life. Hope this helps. If you need anything else let me know.
scott
You might also ask
Bob Salnick
DE45 s/v Eolian
Living aboard: Windborne in Puget Soundhttp://windborneinpugetsound.blogspot.com/
if he has any pictures of her out of the water showing a side view of the boat and rudder.
his website link is above
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Hi Scott
Thanks very much for all the photos. They should fit the bill nicely. I had the pictures of Walts Rudder, but it is hard to put measurements to the rudder when it is off the boat.
I have had one rudder made already at Finco in Santa Anna. They used to make the rudders for the Downeasters, however they don't have the molds or patterns anymore. The rudder he made was considerably larger and the rudder shaft had a bend in it from welding (he was trying to rush the job for us and he forgot to check it after the weld). Bottom line..it didn't work..even after four days of fiddling in the yard by all the experts!
So armed with these pictures, we will try the project again. Thanks again for the time and effort
Bob
s/v Mariposa Bella
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No worries.. Glad I could help. Just remember that I calculated those measurements off of a photograph. I'm sure they are off by at least 3 or 4 %. However I think with that rough information and your actuall boat to measure off of that you should be able to work something out. This is the time to for you to tweak the rudder a bit if you had weather helm in higher seas etc... you can make it just a bit bigger if you want (that is wider in a fore and aft direction). I have seen a lot of rudders on boats and it seems overall that just about anything of roughly the right size will work. I have seen a lot of rudders that were not particularly aerodynamic even work quite well. Though they probably would have worked a few % better if they were a perfect NACC cross section.
You can back check me on my measurements by doing it yourself. I took a photo editing program (I used a free one called gimp) that had a measurement feature. I measured how many pixels it was from the bow of the boat not including the bowsprit to the stern not including the davits. Then I multiplyed the 38 ft times 12 to get how long in inches the boat is. Then I divided the pixel length by the number of inches to get how many pixels equaled an inch.
Then I went back with the measurement tool and measured the three measurments I marked in green and divided the pixel length of each by the number of pixels that equal one inch. this gave me how many inches each measurement was. This would be great to recreate on a high resolution image of a DE45 of which I don't think we have any. The higher the resolution the more accurate this will be. My pixel count from front to back of the boat was over 1200 on the image I used that I posted. It came out at around 2.6 pixels per inch. or something like that. I seem to have already lost the piece of paper I wrote it all down on already 🙂
Scott
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Hi Scott -
I have lots of pictures of Eolian on the hard, if pictures of a DE45 would help. I can't post one here because this
blog apparently only accepts URL's for images in these replies, and I don't have this one up anywhere yet. I'll
email it to you. Not surprisingly, it isn't from straight on – boat yards are crowded.
Bob
s/v Eolian
DE45 #11
Seattle
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Hi Bob
If you could send a pic or two to me also I would appreciate it. The more pictures I have for the rudder guy the better the odds are of getting a working rudder.
My address is rleem@shaw.ca
Thanks
Bob
S/V Mariposa Bella
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Bob,
not sure what the problem is with posting images. You should be able to upload them here even replying. I can.. though I am admin.. I will check the permissions again on the setup.
Scott
ps. did you email mariposa bob
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ok im pixeling again..
the angle isn't quite square so there will be some small margin of error in this. also I can't measure the whole boat in the image so I have measured the
prop as a known diameter and then using that to calculate the inches per pixel to use in measuring the rudder.
in the image I am figuring the prop is 52.5 pixels in diameter. Bob from Eolian has told me that the prop is 20 inches
in diameter. so we divide 20 into 52.5 to get 2.625 inches per pixel. now we measure the rudder
and we get
If you have any questions just let me know.. I will say that it isn't even close to a DE38 rudder.
Here is the original image Bob of Eolian sent me that I measured. The edited image is a crop of the area that I then resized bigger and annotated with the measurements I took.
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Ok Scott..the suspense is killing me..what do we get?
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lol... refresh it.. it should be uploaded now
scott
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Eolian Bob,
Could you test uploading something again? If it doesn't work I will need to play with it.. It is working ok for me. It isn't the most user friendly upload interface I've ever seen but it does work for me.
I also have found that if you upload images larger than about 1024 in width that it screws with the formating on the forum for some reason. You can adjust the displayed size with the image properties to fix this. Also setting the images to middle alignment seems to help also.
scott
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Mariposa Bob, 🙂
I based the above measurements on the prop diameter. If you could measure the distance between the upper and lower mounts for the rudder and compare it to the measurement I made of the same distance on the rudder it will give you an idea how accurate I was in all the measurements. If it is much different let me know what it was in inches and I can recalculate the other measurements.
I will most likely be on the boat the next couple days so I might or might not be able to check in on the forum till tuesday/wed 🙂 then off to huntsville alabama for thanksgiving weekend.
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I just had a thought..
while your building a rudder you might angle it up more at the aft end bottom so that if you go aground it is less likely to hit bottom. You could regain that surface area by making it a hair wider front to back. By the way, what broke that the rudder came off and you lost it? Do you know? if you have damage and got some good pictures of it please send them in or post them. It would be a good refereance for others.
scott
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Scott
We think we hit a whale or a whale came up under us, but at the time we were in 10 - 12 ft following seas and winds gusting to 35mph. Who has time to look around?
Damage to the boat was minimal..the rudder was gone and a few scratches on the keel. We had our sails tied down because of the storm the previous night at the marina and because the forecast was for winds of less than 5 kn we didn't bother releasing the sails. So motorsailing and doing well until we lost all steering. After broaching twice I finally figured out how to turn the boat into the waves using prop walk. So for 20 mins, until the coasties got there I played with the throttle. Being towed in by the coasties at over ten kn in a storm is a whole new experience! In fact it should be a new ride at Disney!
The rudder and post came off cleanly at the bottom of the rudder log at the hull line, so no water got into the boat! I will try to attach a photo of the boat after the new rudder they made first. Before that it was just a boat without the rudder..nothing to see(no pun intended). Sorry can't get the picture in .[Image Can Not Be Found]
Bob
S/V Mariposa Bella
[Image Can Not Be Found]
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Good Morning All,
Our DE38, Perelandra, is on the hard for the winter. I'd be happy to measure up the rudder, take photographs and otherwise provide any assistance that might be needed. If you need me to help out, reply here and/or send an email to doug@thementucks.com. I'm on the East coast, so you probably wouldn't be able to get a firsthand look, but I'd be happy to meet you if you want to make the trek!
Doug Mentuck
I have created a short tutorial on uploading images as we have had several people have issues being able to do so. If you can't get it to work using this tutorial please let me know so we can figure out what the problem is and resolve it. The ability to upload images is pretty crucial to any forum environment nowadays. The old saying that a picture is worth a thousand words is never more true than here.
The below link will take you to the tutorial.
/forums/welcome-to-the-downeaster-yachts-forum/how-to-upload-images/#p128
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Ok Scott here ya go
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Bob,
Just looking at it by eye it looks good. I would worry a little bit about how low the bottom is on the aft end of the rudder but other than that it looks darn close to the pictures of Eolian. What was wrong with it that it didn't work?
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It appears that the rudder post was warped a bit during weldoing and the rudder binds up terribly when in the water. The wheel is just very hard to turn and if you are backing up, the water pressure against the rudder makes it impossible to straighten the rudder
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(Boy, fail to check the website for a couple of days, and you really fall behind!)
Yes, I have mailed some more pix to Mariposa Bob, but unfortunately none show the rudder very clearly. As I told him, this is going to be like the 5 blind guys trying to describe the elephant by feel - you only get a part of the story from each.
Scott - thanks for the tutorial - I will try to attach a picture to this posting.
Mariposa Bob -
Boy, that's too bad. That looked like a nice rudder. But I agree with Scott - since you get another chance, that dragging aft tip should be trimmed off of the next one. Imagine trying to turn the rudder to get the boat off when it is in the mud.
Scott -
Nope, when I get to the TinyBrowser window, it is completely empty for me. Does it depend on some microsoft-ism? Because I don't use their stuff.
bob
s/v Eolian
DE45 #11
Seattle
Living Aboard: Windborne In Puget Sound
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hmm.. i will try uploading something under linux and see what happens. I don't have a mac to test on it.. however mac is pretty close to linux nowadays 🙂 BSD core under the hood.
scott
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Bob,
The as far as I know the Tinybrowser should be working for you but I have had intermitent issues with it on different computers also.
I was working on this last night when I found that the TinyMCE editor and Tiny browser uploader had a security vulnerability that someone tried to take advantage of about 5 days ago. Luckly the hacker was pretty inept. I am working on that right now with the software developers. I will get back to the uploading issue after dealing with this. For the moment I am going to remove the editor that is vulnerable to this exploit. It will mean that the nice formating options and spell checking etc.. all go away for a few days. Bear with me as I work on this.
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