Log In
Register
Home
Topic RSS
Offline
I've been having a nice conversation with SoloBob of sv LastFarewell thorugh email and we started kibitzing about stuff I thought others might want to join in on. There are quite a few of us refurbishing our boats right now that are doing these projects.
I've copied a bit of our emails here to get it started . Bob is in Green and I am in Blue..
I am looking forward to a spate of new articles on projects we have been doing and finishing on our boat. Today I replaced the main sheet and main sheet blocks as well as all the blocks on the stay sail main sheet. Later today or tomorrow will be moving the stay sail main sheet winch and installing rope clutches for it. Earlier this week I installed another solar panel over the dingy davits and finished wiring it in yesterday. Its a cloudy overcast day here and the systems is pumping out between 10 and 20 amp/hr
What are you working on now?
Scott
I bought my DE38 in July 2012… and am glad I did, although my "plan" didn't call for me buying a boat for another couple of years.
So until I'm ready to dive in 100%, I decided to place her in hard storage in Green Cove Springs ( Jax). I live in Atlanta, so it's a bit of a drive to run down to do a few things, combined with the fact that the storage yard is under a locked gate on Sundays. I have to take a Friday off to make it worthwhile to go down. In the meantime, I'm doing anything I can refit wise, which usually means removing various items, bringing them back with me, refurbing them, and then go swap for some more.
Currently, I finishing up the last of the hatches… I had drop boards in the companion way hatch, and have always disliked them, so I've converted to a double door setup. I'll get around to putting some pictures up online, and I'll link to them in a post.
In the meantime, here is one of the hatches I've made…
years ago I jumped down on top of a hatch, and went straight on through…. so the original lexan/plexiglass hatches went by the wayside.
I'm probably looking to move aboard sometime in late 2014, or very early 2015.. and then, after completing the refit, it will be off to wherever I fancy that month…
SoloBob
I am just in awe of that picture of the hatch you made. My wood work is competent and looks nice but that is just showroom beautiful. Just damn!!!!!! I would love to see a really good write up on your opening doors instead of drop boards. We have teak drop boards that I replaced with a single piece of 1/2 inch acrylic. It is great in that it is very solid and very bad because it is very heavy 🙂 I am a light junkie and have put acrylic drop boards in all my boats as soon as I get them if they don't already have them. However with my wife the heavy acrylic is on her dislike list for the weight. she loves the light too though. I have been brainstorming ideas for going to a door that splits in the middle and folds flat out of the way on either side of the aft cabin face. Ideally the door panels would be acrylic or wood with acrylic inserts. I would like to build it so that it sits just outboard of the current drop board so you can still have that to drop in places as a storm drop board.
Um going through a lexan/acrylic hatch would suck…. ouch…. I have never had an issue and love the clear hatches but wouldn't want that to happen. I rebuilt the companionway slide hatch on Valkyr but just used the teak frame of the original and replaced the ply center that had rotted out. I wanted to go to acrylic but that would have required a full from scratch rebuild and I just didn't have the energy or time. Rebuilding the existing one took a few hours and looks ok. I screwed it back together the way it was before but used thickened epoxy to glue it at the same time as well as penetrating epoxy to seal the plywood. It is never coming apart and is about 3 times stronger than original. I will probably will redo it in acrylic one day but I won't have to worry about jumping on it and going through. It is under the new hard dodger and you could crawl over it but not even stand on it. There is only 27 inches of clearance from the dodger to the top of the hatch.
I know how distance can hurt you on getting stuff done or even visiting the boat. Ours was in Southport NC in a beautiful location but we only got to see it once a week or every other week for a day or so and if you didn't remember something for a project it was 80 miles away. We moved the boat closer at about 30 miles from home and then have lived on board for 18 months with most of the tools in deck boxes so that we could get stuff done. It has been a long process. I'm pretty stoked though as a lot of stuff is getting finished lately.
I'm sitting here looking at the solar chargers built in webpage that gives stat's and with the new panel added to the system we have produced 127 amp hours of power today so far and it is a cloudy day, with lots of scattered clouds. I think on a bright sunny day we will be able to produce 200+ amp hours of charging current. It just feels really good to sit and look at that after the hundreds of hours of installing the hard dodger and solar panels on it as well as the panel over the davits and all the wiring, etc… I just realized that now I'm under the gun to do a full write up with pictures also as that is a 100% finished project. 🙂
scott
Thank you for those kind words about the hatch, in reality, I probably have way more time invested in it than I should have.
It's interesting that your considering going to some alternate form of entry, in conjunction with changing from drop boards to doors, I'm toying with the idea of some sort of stainless steel burglar bar affair, with a screen that would fit down on the stationary portion of the lift off hinges I used. That one is still bouncing around between neurons though.
I had forgotten you had installed a hard dodger, I have to admit, I do toy with that idea as well. The shape of the canvas dodger I have, leaves alot to be desired. I can't put my finger in it exactly, but something about it just doesn't look right….. and my experience tells me if it doesn't look right, then there is usually something amiss with it.
I'm impressed with the current your producing with your panels….. I've purchased two 240 watts panels, that I'm intending to mount on top of my Dink Davit arrangement. Stainless Steel Fabrication is next on my list of "Remote" projects.
I'm glad to hear you have moved aboard, granted it presents a new set of challenges as far as the refit goes, but being there, and being able to spend even 10 minutes on a project every evening, has great rewards. It also gives you insight into life aboard, I'm sure some of the things you thought would be of great issue, turned out to be non issues, and other unforeseen ones, have reared their head.
SoloBob
Offline
I have always loved the ideas of doors instead of drop boards, the only hesitation I have is that it is hard to imagine them being as strong as drop boards if you got large seas from aft into the cockpit. That is why I want to work out something to do both. I also have been thinking about systems for keeping people out of the boat like stainless grills over the hatches etc… still no firm design in mind. For the double doors on the main companionway I have been playing with the thought of a 1/8 or 1/4 inch stainless frame that sits in and around the current slot with heavy hinges welded to it and 1/2 inch acrylic that I have sitting around bolted to it for the doors. I have done several projects where I fabricated stuff out of stainless on the boat, such as a monitor hanger for a 24 inch monitor at the chart table and a rotating microwave platform that sits over the kitchen counter or can be rotated so that it is in the salon facing he center of the boat with its back almost flush with the large window on port side. I think using stainless and welding a frame up that drops into place or bolts down that I might be able to build something fairly strong.
We really love the dodger but until we sail with it and have a few storms I am slightly concerned with how large it is. We built it 10 ft long and 7 1/2 ft wide. so that we could mount a lot of solar capacity on it. So far we have loved it sitting in the slip. It is light weigh but very strong being made out of 1 1/4 inch aluminum tubing. Has full length handrails down both sides for safety. You can stand on it if you need to get to the boom. basically it starts at the forward end of the upper cabin and extends past the aft end of the cabin out over the cockpit by about 36? inches. ( It's been a while and I will need to look at the drawings again to make sure of that measurement.) So far sitting in the slip with winds up up to about 60 mph it seems to offer little to no windage. For a long time we had a tarp strapped down over the framework and in high winds it didn't stress or flutter. In the next few weeks I plan on starting the vinyl enclosure that will go around it for in the winter or bad weather.
Your 2 240 watt panels will probably produce as much power as my current setup with the 325 watts over the dodger and the 190 watt panel over the davits. The panels on my dodger are thin film panels that are only a millimeter or two thick and though nice in appearance and lack of bulk or weight they are pretty low efficiency. Even more so than I had thought. I would still go with them though as all 13 of them up there probably only weight 18 to 20 lbs and you can stand on them if needed. I will be really impressed with your davit arrangement if you can get two 240 watt panels on it. My 190 watt panel is 5ft long by 3 ft wide and 45 lbs. Two 240 watt panels will probably be (5 to 6) ft by (6 or 7) ft and 90 to 100 lbs. My one panel extends the width of the existing davits and probably overhangs them by 12 inches.
Oh todays power production has been stellar.. full sunny day and by 5pm They have produced 2KW of power and put 153.8 amp hours into the battery bank. By 6:30 or 7 when production drops off totally it will be a bit higher than that. It's the equivalent of me running a little Honda 1000 watt generator for 2 hours and being able to use it effectively at 100% of its rating. Once we move all the computers onto the inverter as well as the freezer I can see us needing even more power than we have now as well as a slightly bigger battery bank. I will probably get a wind generator next. I admit to being a serious power hog 🙂
One of the hardest things I have found to do when planning all these projects is to find the space for them or fit them into the existing space. I originally bought 2 190 watt panels and planned to put them on the new hard dodger side by side. Sadly in all the design changes we ended up with 1 inch less space than needed to install them on it like that and had to start there from scratch all over again for the solar. I like what I ended up with much more than what was originally planned but it involved buying the solar panels twice.. Original ones and then the thin film ones we installed. Luckily we got a great deal at a dollar a watt on ebay for the new ones.
So we have been using a lot of stainless tubing, rod, flat bar and angle for projects on valkyr. Your mention of doing some stainless fabrication for mounting your solar panels reminded me of how hard It has been to source said materials at reasonable prices. The only companies you can buy from locally want an arm a leg and the first born child. Online is better but then the shipping kicks in. Most of my projects have been inside the boat so far and I have been buying mill finish 304 stainless at pretty good prices and free shipping on amazon. Here is an example of some angle bar I ordered. They have 316 also, though it is a bit pricier.. I think for outside stuff I would definitely use 316 stainless.
the last project or so I have been using this little inverter welder. It is about the size of a loaf of bread and runs off 110.. However I have to admit it is finicky and a little low powered. I use small diameter rod to make it work better. Nice thing is how small it is and that I can keep it on the boat.
Chicago Electric Inverter Arc Welder
Nothing beats the big 220 Lincoln at the house for welding though 🙂
Offline
I'm glad to hear you have moved aboard, granted it presents a new set of challenges as far as the refit goes, but being there, and being able to spend even 10 minutes on a project every evening, has great rewards. It also gives you insight into life aboard, I'm sure some of the things you thought would be of great issue, turned out to be non issues, and other unforeseen ones, have reared their head
SoloBob.
Your right.. living aboard has really help us refine a lot of stuff. However it is living at the dock plugged into shore power so I'm sure we will have a whole new list of things to adjust to or adjust the boat to once we start doing a lot of sailing and living at anchor. It has also accelerated getting a lot of projects done but on the other hand slowed some up due to use living here. We have also gotten a lot of flack from the marina or people in the marina for the constantly torn up appearance of the boat with materials and tools in boxes on deck.
Scott
Offline
Wow... I really hadn't realized we had been chattering away all that much..... just goes to show what happens when you get two sailors comparing notes. [Image Can Not Be Found]
OK, back to the ideas at hand .... Yes, the panels are going to be a challenge to get mounted, and I hoping I don't end up looking like some sort of floating meteorological station ... along with the panels, I'm incorporating some mounts for various antennas... the GPS for the AIS, as well as the Dink Davits, and an outboard motor davit. I'm hoping to have the panels up at the 6'2" level above deck.... but I still have some brainstorming to do in the cockpit, with a measuring tape. the two panels together will end up being 82 wide, and 62 deep ..... Just call it a boat house for the Zodiac. [Image Can Not Be Found]
I agree that 316 is the alloy of choice for the marine environment, but I'm not that picky about finish, and if it ends up looking more like weathered aluminum, so be it. If it was something that would be in salt water contact constantly, then I would spring for the 316. The primary components are two 6 foot sections of schedule 40, 2 1/2" pipe. The diagonal support struts will probably be 316 though.
I've found that if I watch Ebay closely, and am patient, I get some really great deals on stainless.
Locally there is a place called the "Metals Supermarket".... I haven't been in yet, but a number of people have raved about it.
I appreciate the Amazon link, to be honest, I never thought of looking there.
When I say fabrication, on my end anyway, I'll do all the cutting and fitting, but I've got a friend that will do all the welding... I've got a stick welder, and a wire feed unit... but it's been too many years since I did much of either.
Swivel for the Microwave? That sounds interesting.
S/V The Last Farewell,
Currently laying Panchos Marina
Marathon, Florida
Offline
you need to watch the weight build up in the aft end of the boat. Thats close to a 100 lbs of solar panels hanging aft of the transom plus a hefty frame work. Say another 50 lbs minimum for schedule 40 2 1/2 inch stainless tubing that long. Thats massive. I have seen a couple hunters here in the marina that have the travelers mounted on arches over the cockpit and I don't think the tubing is over 2 inches in diameter and they are dealing in very heavy loads from the main sheet.
I have the one 45 lb panel mounted to a off the shelf davit made of 1 inch stainless tubing. I u-bolted two 1x2 oak boards, one to each arm of the davit and then bolted the panel down to that by drilling holes in the frame where the u bolts extended up past the oak boards and then using washers and nylock nuts to bolt it down. I will have to take some pictures as it is hard to describe. However it is fairly lightly built compared to your described setup and still feels rock solid. I can pretty much lay my upper body down on top of it to get to the aft end of the panel to work on the stern light that I moved and it just barely quivers.
How handy is your friend at welding aluminum? You might think about using 1 1/4 inch OD? schedule 40 aluminum tubing. My dodger frame that is 27 inches tall x 10ft x 7.5 ft with 5 or 6 horizontal cross pieces weighs less than 60 lbs or so. I could pick the whole thing up with one hand and carry its weight easily. Awkward size but light weight. Its strong enough that I can grab the frame and yank with all my strength with it bolted down and at with me a 6 foot plus and 190 lbs guy it barely shivers.
At some point I would like to put an aluminum traveler arch over valkyrs cockpit and and integrate davits into it as well as a place to mount more solar, but with all the weight moved forward by about 4 to 5 feet so that it isn't hanging aft of the boat.
AIS GPS antenna…. I just finished installing a AIS transceiver on valkyr and ended up putting the gps antenna for it just inside the handrail on the cabin roof, under the new dodger. I had a usb gps puck that I have been using inside the boat plugged into the computer and it has worked well and locked up satellites very fast. When it was time to find a place for the GPS antenna that came with the AIS unit there was no good place to mount it other than running it aft and mounting it on the rail back there or on the dodger top. It was tall enough that the boom would have probably broken it off if I mounted it there though and I have so much stuff on the rail back there that it is just cluttered. . Then I had the thought that if the little last generation usb gps puck worked so well when it was all the way inside the boat the the big marine antenna should work great just above there outside but under the dodger roof. I tested it and it did work. It made for an easy install with the wiring running beside the power cables for the solar through the coach roof just aft of the chart table in the corner on starboard. Here is the write up on that project. The GPS antenna sits just behind the PVC tube that I epoxied into the cabin top.
I will get a picture and write up of the microwave in the next few days. It's actually pretty easy to build, fairly lightweight and seriously strong. I wish I had a good friend that was great at welding 🙂 I am a decent functional welder but sometimes not the prettiest at it.
Offline
The Center of Gravity of this arrangement is going to be pretty much right over middle of the area between the emerg. rudder deck plate, and the transom cap. On occasion I'll have the dink on the davits, but that's more a security feature, as I will not carry it there underway any distance. The panels are right at 42 lbs each.... I'm expecting the stainless arrangement to come in at about 200 including antennas, davits and such. It is something I have concern over, as the dink will add another 88 lbs. ( outboard off) so I am paying attention to the weight.
The boat sits a little bow down currently, somebody decided to move all the battery banks forward to under the main salon settee... I guess to make it easy to maintain... although personally, I don't really like that much hydrogen gas with my dinner. [Image Can Not Be Found] Those are going back to the stern.
I'm going to add a windlass & 300 lbs of G4 5/16 chain to the locker forward just to balance her out.
Tell me about your solar controller... what do you have harnessing all that juice?
S/V The Last Farewell,
Currently laying Panchos Marina
Marathon, Florida
Offline
If the weight of the batteries is forward then leaving them there is going to go far to balancing out the extra weight aft. I have 4 group 31 batteries in in the stock place behind the engine. That is 300 lbs added to what ever is in the cockpit lockers (100-200lbs i hope) , dingy davits (50lbs) , outboard on its mount (26lbs), solar panel(45lb) and dingy(100lb). so say about 600 to 700 lbs total. Moving the batteries forward would bring that down to by half. On valkyr the davits, solar panel, and dingy all are aft of the transom.
A lot of boats have their batteries in the main cabin. I'm not that big on flooded batteries because of the acid but with AGM's or GEL batteries almost all your issues with gassing and acid leaks go away. Personally I would leave the batteries forward if whoever did the job did it right. I have thought about moving mine to between the aft water tank and the fuel tank in the bilge. 3 ft lower and almost 10 to 12 ft forward of where they are now.
Valkyr sits high in the bow after taking 100 of 275 feet of chain out (was a bad section) and removing the holding tank and all plumbing and marine head from boat. (we went to a composting head that weights maybe 20 lbs if that.
I put in a Morningstar MPPT Tristar 60 amp charge controller. So far it is working great. I love the web interface so that I can monitor historical daily stats as well as look at what it is doing in real time. Only downside is that at the moment we can produce a lot more power than we are using and it doesn't have a diversion/dump control that would allow us to heat water in the water heater with excess capacity. I installed both that and the xantrex 50 amp 3 bank shore charger in the compartment under the pilot berth and against the bulkhead that lies between it and the engine compartment. It kept the chargers out of the engine compartment but with really short wiring runs through that bulkhead to the main buss bars that the batteries are hooked up to. Downside is they are not fun to reach on a casual basis. I can turn off solar input using circuit breakers that are between the solar arrays and the charge controller and I also have a circuit breaker between the controller and the batteries on the positive charging cable. This allows me to isolate the solar charge controller and turn it off or isolate it from the arrays if needed at the flip of a switch.
According to theoretical calculations I should be seeing close to 43 amps of charging current off the the combined (525 watt) solar arrays. So far the best I have seen is just over 20 amps charging current. However I do know that if the batteries are fully charged that the charge controller doesn't even seem to see the extra solar capacity. It can be high noon and it will say the array is only producing 80 watts, while if the batteries are low it might say it is producing 300 watts in the same conditions. I need to call morningstar and talk with them and see if what I think I am seeing is what I am actually seeing. So far I haven't drawn my batteries down below 80% charge. Most nights I don't use more than 8 to 12 % of capacity which leaves them at about 90% capacity. We will see what happens when I get the inverter installed and start pulling 120 house loads off the batteries also.
Offline
Scott
Would be happy to offer comments about refurbishing a DE 32 that might be of interest.
For the past three years I have focused on function more than form as I refurbished Saffanah. As a result, and literally from bottom up, I have worked on only the functional aspects of getting Saffanah sea worthy (or more appropriately passage ready).
Removed and replaced rudder, cutlass bearings, all through hulls, valves and hoses
Completely rewired all 12 v and 120 volt wiring and replaced electrical panels including a 2000 watt inverter
Replaced (or more correctely - added) the tiller with pedestal/wheel steering - still have the old tiller that can be easily installed in case the wheel steering has a problem
Installed an Aries tilt up windvane
Installed a reverse heat and A/C system - here in Florida a/c is a necessity
Replaced the forward and aft bilge pumps, rebuilt the black water and gray water systems, refurbished the pressurized potable water tanks and hoses and added a hot water heater - either 120 V or engine exhaust heat.
Removed and replaced all standing and running rigging, built a set of boom gallows, replaced all sails (Including a fully battened main and a tides sail track system), added an Alado Furle and replaced the spreaders
Rebuilt the 29 hp Perkins Parama and Hurst transmission - including replacing control cables for throttle, gear shift and engine cutoff
Installed a fuel polishing system - lots of bad fuel in the islands off the coast or in some marinas along the ICW - so I can move and clean fuel between the 20 gal day tank and the 80 gal tank below the galley (oh what fun to fix a leak in that galley tank)
Installed a complete bank of Garmin and ICOM electronics including radar, GPS, depth sounder, AIS and SSB along with cabinets to hold the electronics and wiring blocks
Repainted the hull.
Designed and installed a radar arch and dinghy davits and set up a redundant navigational lighting system to be used either off shore or when the mast is unstopped when traveling the Great Loop or the European canals.
Replaced an old wooden dodger with a new canvas dodger and Bimini supported from the radar arch
You have posted some of this work , but I have maintained a pretty detailed log and cost accounting for these projects. So if some one has a question about such projects, I can at least share my experience (or problems that I ran into and the costs to fix the problem).
I am now in the process of addressing more cosmetic interior issues. Having now stopped (I hope) the many leaks from hatches, port lights and stanchions, and, with the addition of a functional AC system, I have been able to fully "dry out" the interior of the boat. Unfortunately as the boat dried, some of the plywood used for cabinets began delaminate. As I began to look more closely, I discovered that in a past owners lifetime, the boat had experienced a fire. I had previously suspected a fire when I rebuilt the engine but as I recently inspected the delaminated plywood and factory installed teak trim I found charred wood.
So as a result I am now in the process of completely removing and rebuilding the port and starboard lockers, the galley cabinets, the head cabinets, etc. and anything else that had been constructed with plywood. I have been able to purchase un-milled teak boards for about $10 a board foot, and now reconstructing the cabinets from solid teak - including the framework. Using a combination of sap wood and heart wood, I am gradually brightening up the interior at the same time - although some might argue that only heart wood should be used on a sailboat. By the way I did install a new cabin sole - since the boat did not have a sole when I first purchased her. So once again if someone is interested or has suggestions I would be more than happy to correspond.
As a side note, a previous owner had previously removed and replaced the original headliner (which I suspect was badly damaged from the fire) with a "tongue and groove" plastic material produced by AIC mill works. It is a flexible material that simulates wood, looks very nice and is very easy to install using liquid nails or epoxy glue.
In a separate e mail I will send you a couple of photos showing the cabinets I have built to store electronics. While the cabinets appear to add clutter to the cabin, they do not seem to be overwhelming when I travel or sail in the boat.
Thanks for all of the hard work keeping up this site.
Bill Amt
s/v Saffanah
Offline
Somebody has been very busy .....
Just curious, but what part of Florida are you in ( if you don't mind me asking).
S/V The Last Farewell,
Currently laying Panchos Marina
Marathon, Florida
Offline
Wow Bill, that sounds like an increadable amount of work. Would love to see write ups on all of it 🙂 Even just pictures of each project labled briefly to put up with a Saffanah page under the DE32's info entry would be great. I feel for you on the cabinetry.. That has been the really great thing about Valkyr is how well her interior cabinetry has held up/been taken care of. If I had had to replace most of it I think I would have just taken a sawzaw to her and sold the pieces for scrap.. Not really but I'm impressed with your finished list much less your todo list.
Offline
Saffanah is presently in Jacksonville at the Ortega River Landings marina, very close to Green Cove Springs. So if you are in the area, give me a shout and we can gossip about our projects
Bill Amt
Offline
Thank You very much for that... I know exactly where you are.
30 years ago, I lived and worked in Jacksonville.
Probably be after the first of the year before I get a chance for an extended visit, but I'll look you up.
S/V The Last Farewell,
Currently laying Panchos Marina
Marathon, Florida
Offline
Sorry I've been so long in getting back to this, work is really starting to interfere with my Boat Projects[Image Can Not Be Found]
I've installed my Companionway Door Project, however even though the Sliding hatch and track is complete, I've decided to hold off till after I re-power ( that's another post). Here is a picture of the new doors....
This is the rebuilt Greenhouse Hatch in the main salon ....
Then there is this Gem I managed to Salvage as well.....
S/V The Last Farewell,
Currently laying Panchos Marina
Marathon, Florida
Most Users Ever Online: 120
Currently Online:
2 Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Jonathan Oasis: 174
bobmcd625: 165
CAE: 150
mgav451: 143
Rick: 94
svbodhran: 84
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 7
Members: 366
Moderators: 1
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 13
Topics: 745
Posts: 3834
Newest Members:
tonyflor, sailordad46, Spirare, BradHartliep, Duncan, MistyDawnModerators: Patrick Twohig: 134
Administrators: Scott Carle: 1480
