General Sailing Performance General Forum Forums

Another thread from the old forums that I thought would be good to move over here.
1.
Good morning, Cindy.
I have enjoyed my DE 32, Misty Dawn, since 1989. She is moored at the Channel Islands Marina in Oxnard and makes frequent trips to the Channel Islands, mostly to the various anchorages at Santa Cruz Island.
About 37 1/2 feet, bowsprit rail to stern rail.
I would say that the DE 32 is not an especially good light air boat, due to her heavy displacement. Misty Dawn does not have a windspeed instrument so I am not sure how to translate her performance against wind speed but I would say that you need a few whitecaps, about 10 knots of wind, before unfurling the headsail or headsails. She will heel quickly, maybe to about 20 degrees, when sailing to windward but stays solid at that angle, or a bit more, as the wind builds. Misty Dawn does her best on a reach and can average seven knots, on a broad reach, with good winds when heading home from Santa Cruz Island.
I don't think that the DE 32 is any better or worse than other boats as far as powering or sailing into steep swells. If you can head her off the swells by maybe 20 degrees, she will handle them fine, maybe crashing on the big ones occasionally.
In reverse, Misty Dawn walks to port based on her prop rotation. This is a real plus for getting out of and into her slip. Backing slowly, shifting in and out of gear, she will behave ok. For the most part, I don't find much need for being in reverse other than in and out of the slip and setting the bow anchor.
I expect that you will have other replies as well.
I better get back to work . . . .
Jim CurryAnother thread from the old forums that I thought would be good to move over here.
1.
Good morning, Cindy.
I have enjoyed my DE 32, Misty Dawn, since 1989. She is moored at the Channel Islands Marina in Oxnard and makes frequent trips to the Channel Islands, mostly to the various anchorages at Santa Cruz Island.
About 37 1/2 feet, bowsprit rail to stern rail.
I would say that the DE 32 is not an especially good light air boat, due to her heavy displacement. Misty Dawn does not have a windspeed instrument so I am not sure how to translate her performance against wind speed but I would say that you need a few whitecaps, about 10 knots of wind, before unfurling the headsail or headsails. She will heel quickly, maybe to about 20 degrees, when sailing to windward but stays solid at that angle, or a bit more, as the wind builds. Misty Dawn does her best on a reach and can average seven knots, on a broad reach, with good winds when heading home from Santa Cruz Island.
I don't think that the DE 32 is any better or worse than other boats as far as powering or sailing into steep swells. If you can head her off the swells by maybe 20 degrees, she will handle them fine, maybe crashing on the big ones occasionally.
In reverse, Misty Dawn walks to port based on her prop rotation. This is a real plus for getting out of and into her slip. Backing slowly, shifting in and out of gear, she will behave ok. For the most part, I don't find much need for being in reverse other than in and out of the slip and setting the bow anchor.
I expect that you will have other replies as well.
I better get back to work . . . .
Jim Curry
DE32 Misty Dawn
2.
Hi Cindy.
The heeling gives her a somewhat longer water line. The first time that I sailed in Misty Dawn on her sea trial, I was "concerned" about the way that she heeled but, now, I would probably be "concerned" on a boat that didn't.
Rudder size? I have never had any situation or cause for concern about the size of the rudder.
Misty Dawn has a wheel-mounted Autohelm 4000 which works well for steering under power and light sailing but which will not handle a following sea at all nor sailing under conditions where the helm needs quick adjustments – just not quick enough to respond and then makes it worse by responding late.
I have been organizing my thoughts to put out an inquiry on what self-steering equipment others are using. I know that there is some information on the web site re windvane self steering equipment installations, on a DE 38 I think.
Battery location is a pain. Bad for servicing and even worse for replacement (but you get used to it). There is information on the web site about moving the batteries to under the quarter berth.
Hope that this helps.
Jim Curry
3.

Dear Cindy,
Yes the DE32 pulls to weather , but very mildly and is corrected with almost no effort on the column.
I have not found the heeling to be a problem at all and the rudder is quite adequate.
The battery location certainly could be improved upon . Mine are going to be moved to the quarter berth area. It is being done for me but I'll find out more details and post them.
Regards all
Henry L

4.

HI Cindy,
To add to the comments that you have already recieved: We have sailed and chartered lot of fin keeled boats and owned about 6 of them, but Crystal Blue our DE 32, is the first full keeled boat for us. I am very pleased with the light air performance and love the way the boat handles when the wind and seas pipe up. We have the original 24 hp engine, which is too small to crash through seas with any speed at all, so we try to go at small angles to them with the main up. We really expected to be embarassed sailing on lighter days, but do quite well compared to other boats. It is very comfortable. I have not mastered backing up in this boat, it is a real trip to say the least. I usually tell the marinas that we arrive at or leave from that I am not too good at handling this boat and need help. They almost always lend a hand. It is different to handle and am slowly developing the skills. The battery location is not too good. Someone on this site posted a tip to use a mirror to check the water, which works quite well. We put in 4 golf cart batteries which was a good thing to do. We have an Raytheon/Autohelm 4000 for a tiller which is good for motoring and light days. Anything more, it is useless and I would not recommend it. Looking forward to getting a windvane. The rudder is very adequate, the boat controls very, very well when sailing. The rudder mounting very rugged, too. Don't ask how I know. In short, we like our DE 32 a lot. Hope this helps.
5.

WE HAVE LIVED AND SAILED ABOARD MORNING WINGS FOR 16 YEARS. THAT SHE LOOKS LIKE NO OTHER IS TRUE FOR WE HAVE CONVERTED HER BASICALLY TO A PILOT HOUSE CUTTER IN ADDITION WE HAVE CONVERTED HER TO A POLITICAL BOAT, I.E. WE SIT BACK PULL STRINGS AND THINGS HAPPEN. WE HAVE ROLLER FURRLING, JIB TYPE ON ALL SAILS AND HAVE FOUND OT THAT THOUGH SHE IS TENDER SHE SAILS JUST AS WELL WITH A LOT LESS SAIL UPRIGHT. WE HAVE NO INTENTION OF CHANGING BOATS. YES YOU ARE RIGHT THE 32 IS ON DECK USED WHEN CHECKING INTO A NON MEASURING MARINA. ROY mailto:rcrmwings@aol.com
And another that I found when deciding if it was worth disturbing regeorge for a sea trial
http://www.scottcarle.com/word.....ess/?p=417
-Tom

11.
Tim,
We used to have quite bad weather helm on Sea Heather (38') with just our jib and mainsail up, but with the staysail up and everything adjusted just right the weather helm becomes almost non-existent. Of course, we had to learn this the hard way after 5000 or so miles of open-ocean sailing! For that reason, I would probably never buy a Downeaster sloop, but I am interested in what others have to say on the matter. As I have always said, Downeasters are not performance boats, period. We have a 34 hp Yanmar, and on a calm flat day we easily get around 5-6 kts under power. Probably the worst our boat has ever done was going around the tip of the Baja Peninsula from Cabo to Los Frailes, we turned the corner and hit 45+ kt winds coming straight at us, and a huge and extremely short 8-10 ft. chop, and ended up making about .8 kt/hr. under motor and sail with the current in our favor! Terrible! Needless to say, we turned tail and went back. There are boats that could have done better in those specific conditions, ones with bigger motors and perhaps that go into the wind slightly better, but I think at that point you are really splitting hairs on performance. Our best time was probably off the coast of Washington and Oregon in 15+ foot seas on a beam reach doing 8+ kts for over 140 miles! We had waves crashing into the cockpit for over 30 hours and I remember my nalgene bottle floating around in the steering well like a tiny boat on the high seas! That was crazy, but amazing! We kicked the butts of many other boats out during that time! However, I have no great desire to go through that again…but, it just goes to show that performance has as much to do with the conditions as the boat. There is no one-size-fits-all.

12.
Interesting,
I'm the one that made the video of the angela's downeaster 38 on scottcarle.com my website. I have only had experience sailing the one downeaster 38 and it isn't mine. Angela lives on the boat and it is loaded up like a tank. Heavy, Heavy!!! but I would rate its sailing ability as very good. She only really comes alive though with the full main, staysail and jib out. Just the main and jib or main and stay sail leaves her underpowered or should I say just doesn't feel right. As soon as you have all three sails up and set she is like an express rocket.. well for what she is. A downeaster38 isn't a race boat but I have been amazed at how well she sails in light air and again in heavier winds.
The video I took had sailing sequences where we were reaching with the wind on the starboard quarter and doing a steady 8 to 9 knots all day in 17 to 20 knots of wind. In winds from 5 knots to 12 knots I have recorded boat speeds of about half apparent wind. I have a much smaller Beneteau First 235 and to my shock even in light winds when sailing against Valkier the downeaster 38 I would be neck and neck with her. Usually big boats like that I would walk away from in light air. She would reflect a PHRF rating of about 195 to 205.. In heavy winds she will do better than that.
However don't let me mislead you into thinking she is a super fast boat.. she isn't, not compared to race boats. she is just fast for a big heavy old school blue water boat. I have always found the boat to balance extremely well pointing to close reaching. With times that you could take your hands off the wheel for 5 minutes at the time and she would just keep tracking.
I have sailed into the cape fear inlet and river under main and stay sail alone on a light wind day of 4 to 7 knots when we were feeling lazy. The wind was dead on the nose into the inlet and the water was flat. With the self tacking staysail the only person moving on the boat was me steering. We under sail tacked into the inlet and about 4 miles up the cape fear river just as easy as pie with not a single line touched the entire time. I was very impressed.
I have had many hours on her in heavier winds in the 15 to 25 knots range. I wouldn't even think about putting a reef in till after 20 knots. Then if I was feeling cautious I might put the first reef in the main. Then a little later maybe taking in a bit of the jib. You won't loose boat speed.
The sails on her are very heavy weight cruising sails. The main is blown out with a huge amount of belly. I think the sails are about 20 years old with a bit of use on them.
I have found the running rigging layout and the cockpit to be among the most poorly laid out of any boat I have been on. Very awkward to handle the running rigging and extremely uncomfortable sitting around on deck.
The boat doesn't like to back. You have no steerage at all in reverse to port if I remember. With the wheel hard over you can back forever in a straight line. However the once you learn to handle her you can put her most places you want.
Under power 34hp engine? she will cruise at around 5 or 6 knots all day long. We have pushed her hard a time or two and probably done a sustained 7 to 8 knots under power. This was with a clean bottom.
If you have any other questions you can email me at mailto:scott@scottcarle.com
And another that I found when deciding if it was worth disturbing regeorge for a sea trial
http://www.scottcarle.com/word.....ess/?p=417
-Tom
11.
Tim,
We used to have quite bad weather helm on Sea Heather (38') with just our jib and mainsail up, but with the staysail up and everything adjusted just right the weather helm becomes almost non-existent. Of course, we had to learn this the hard way after 5000 or so miles of open-ocean sailing! For that reason, I would probably never buy a Downeaster sloop, but I am interested in what others have to say on the matter. As I have always said, Downeasters are not performance boats, period. We have a 34 hp Yanmar, and on a calm flat day we easily get around 5-6 kts under power. Probably the worst our boat has ever done was going around the tip of the Baja Peninsula from Cabo to Los Frailes, we turned the corner and hit 45+ kt winds coming straight at us, and a huge and extremely short 8-10 ft. chop, and ended up making about .8 kt/hr. under motor and sail with the current in our favor! Terrible! Needless to say, we turned tail and went back. There are boats that could have done better in those specific conditions, ones with bigger motors and perhaps that go into the wind slightly better, but I think at that point you are really splitting hairs on performance. Our best time was probably off the coast of Washington and Oregon in 15+ foot seas on a beam reach doing 8+ kts for over 140 miles! We had waves crashing into the cockpit for over 30 hours and I remember my nalgene bottle floating around in the steering well like a tiny boat on the high seas! That was crazy, but amazing! We kicked the butts of many other boats out during that time! However, I have no great desire to go through that again…but, it just goes to show that performance has as much to do with the conditions as the boat. There is no one-size-fits-all.
12.
Interesting,
I'm the one that made the video of the angela's downeaster 38 on scottcarle.com my website. I have only had experience sailing the one downeaster 38 and it isn't mine. Angela lives on the boat and it is loaded up like a tank. Heavy, Heavy!!! but I would rate its sailing ability as very good. She only really comes alive though with the full main, staysail and jib out. Just the main and jib or main and stay sail leaves her underpowered or should I say just doesn't feel right. As soon as you have all three sails up and set she is like an express rocket.. well for what she is. A downeaster38 isn't a race boat but I have been amazed at how well she sails in light air and again in heavier winds.
The video I took had sailing sequences where we were reaching with the wind on the starboard quarter and doing a steady 8 to 9 knots all day in 17 to 20 knots of wind. In winds from 5 knots to 12 knots I have recorded boat speeds of about half apparent wind. I have a much smaller Beneteau First 235 and to my shock even in light winds when sailing against Valkier the downeaster 38 I would be neck and neck with her. Usually big boats like that I would walk away from in light air. She would reflect a PHRF rating of about 195 to 205.. In heavy winds she will do better than that.
However don't let me mislead you into thinking she is a super fast boat.. she isn't, not compared to race boats. she is just fast for a big heavy old school blue water boat. I have always found the boat to balance extremely well pointing to close reaching. With times that you could take your hands off the wheel for 5 minutes at the time and she would just keep tracking.
I have sailed into the cape fear inlet and river under main and stay sail alone on a light wind day of 4 to 7 knots when we were feeling lazy. The wind was dead on the nose into the inlet and the water was flat. With the self tacking staysail the only person moving on the boat was me steering. We under sail tacked into the inlet and about 4 miles up the cape fear river just as easy as pie with not a single line touched the entire time. I was very impressed.
I have had many hours on her in heavier winds in the 15 to 25 knots range. I wouldn't even think about putting a reef in till after 20 knots. Then if I was feeling cautious I might put the first reef in the main. Then a little later maybe taking in a bit of the jib. You won't loose boat speed.
The sails on her are very heavy weight cruising sails. The main is blown out with a huge amount of belly. I think the sails are about 20 years old with a bit of use on them.
I have found the running rigging layout and the cockpit to be among the most poorly laid out of any boat I have been on. Very awkward to handle the running rigging and extremely uncomfortable sitting around on deck.
The boat doesn't like to back. You have no steerage at all in reverse to port if I remember. With the wheel hard over you can back forever in a straight line. However the once you learn to handle her you can put her most places you want.
Under power 34hp engine? she will cruise at around 5 or 6 knots all day long. We have pushed her hard a time or two and probably done a sustained 7 to 8 knots under power. This was with a clean bottom.
If you have any other questions you can email me at scott@scottcarle.com
I'm not an expert on this boat as I don't own one but I have sailed both as crew and captain once in a while over the last several years. I have also worked in her engine room once or twice [Image Can Not Be Found]
(after ward on this is that we now own valkyr. a year or two after this post was made on the other forum.)