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Ahoy lads and lassies. I am seriously considering buying a DE 38 (Hull No. 24) and like everything (well nearly) I see. I have not yet, however, had a chance to take her out for a sail so am curious as to the general impression of her sailing characteristics, as well as how she handles under power.
I expect that with the long keel she will not be brilliant to windward, and probably not too nimble maneuvering in port. Obviously I have to have a trial sail before sealing the deal, but would appreciate any words of wisdom from the assembled brain power. The sailing will be mostly in the SF Bay with myself and wife on board. Not in a big rush so we can take it easy when changing course, etc.
Thanks in advance...
Bob
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Bob:
We bought a DE38 ketch almost 2 years ago and have spent almost a year rebuilding. We did all the research and found several boat reviews on this website from when the boats were first being built. The thread that went through everything and seems to be true is that "this boat is unimpressed with light airs..." which is a kind way of saying you'll never win any races unless it's against another DE 38. Since we've been on the hard for so long we have not had a great deal of sailing experience with this boat but expect that with the solid hull and split rig she'll be very stiff in a breeze which will make the cook very happy.
I will tell you that she's one of the roomiest boats for her size I've been in with sleeping space for 9 as if you could fit all that luggage, lots and lots of storage, excellent headroom and boy howdy is that hull solid. They really didn't know how strong fiberglass was when they were laying these up so the erred on the thick side almost everywhere.
Ours was repowered with a 54 hp Yanmar which is more then enough and the engine room is lovely if you're used to trying to squeeze an arm into a tight space to check the oil.
Unimpressed with light air. If you're not in a rush and don't mind a little extra freeboard when the wind gets up in an anchorage, you'll be happy about the interior space, storage and comfort.
And thanks to the builders who used scored epoxy for the deck core. Despite lots of leaky through bolts, none of the deck was rotted when we pulled and repotted everything.
I'm a sucker for rocker and shear and the clipper bow so the picture in the boat trader stopped me cold.
Good luck!
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Good stuff, Rick. You can't have it both ways: heavy displacement and long keel mean lots of inertia and drag, so without a massive sail area the light wind performance will suffer. The large space is a big attraction, as is, as you say, the classic lines make it a winner.
Good luck with the completion of the restoration.
Bob
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She isn't a race boat but if you race she will place about PHRF 190 to 200 performance wise. I personally have always been impressed how well our DE38 Cutter does in light winds for a full keel mid displacement cruising boat. I have always wanted a code zero on a furler to make light air a bit more fun though. 
On the cutter rig the staysail is key to good performance. She will sail with just the Jib and Main but comes alive with the staysail up also.
I have sail up the Cape Fear inlet and river in North Carolina against the ebbing outgoing tide dead into a 4 to 5 knot wind with just the staysail and main up. We were being lazy and with just those two up she is self tacking. We did about 1.5 to 2 knots over ground. It was long slow sail doing it but impressively she did do it. Beautiful calm sunny day in the fall with friends and family onboard sprawled out being lazy all over the cocpit, cabin top and fore deck. I was at the helm and the only one doing anything. Which meant that for about 3 hours all I did is tack back and forth sitting at the helm turning the wheel. No one touched a line or otherwise moved the whole afternoon. It just doesn't get any better than that.
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Thanks, Scott. What a great day you must have had!
Very interesting that with full main (320 sf) deployed, the small (128 sf) staysail keeps things balanced. I would think that you would need the working jib (234 sf) with the full main. But, if it works, that's great. You mention wanting a code zero. That would be nice. But I see on the original sail plan that one could get a Yankee jib of 363 sf. The boat I am considering has a working jib that has seen better days on a roller. I am wondering if replacing that with the Yankee would be smart since it could be rolled up as the wind increases. The drawback with the Yankee, I guess, is that the clew is much lower than that of the working jib making tacking more difficult with the staysail in place. I guess a drifter or code zero as you suggest would be a good addition for really light air.
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Our jib is about 155 with a low clew on a roller furler and it can be a pain to tack in light air. Usually someone needs to help it across if you don't get it just right. It's not bad if your tacking once in a while but if doing so running up a river or in close quarters it is a lot of work and needs someone on the foredeck.
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If/when I do buy this boat I'll have to measure the jib to see just how big it is.
The clew is pretty high which I like just to avoid hanging up when tacking.
On a slightly different point, I spoke to the first owner of the boat who said he could sail happily on the SF Bay in 35 kn breeze with full main and staysail. Sounds like the boat for me!
Bob
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Our DE38 Cutter I would be happy to have all sail up till about 25 knots. Anything over that and I start pulling sail in. Jib halfway maybe (on furler), Then a reef in main. Rest of jib or to maybe 75% in.. Then probably a reef in staysail. For sure the jib all the way in now. 2nd reef in main.
35 knots is doable with jib half way in but comfortable for us with main with a reef in it also. Don't have to watch it so close for rounding up in gusts that way.
The cut of your sails, material and condition are going to affect all this also. How loaded down is the boat and how do you trim.
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Thanks, Scott. Good, no Great, news! I can understand that it's good to have some jib, even if reduced, to keep things balanced.
Could you please comment on your mainsail reefing arrangements? Do you manage without a winch on the boom?
Is your staysail still the original with self tacking boom? I have heard that some people have but a roller fuller on the staysail and do away with the boom. I'd like to stay with the original set up to see how things go.
Fair winds
Bob
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mainsail is standard main on slugs with three reef points. On our boat only 2 are setup. Drop main and put reef point on hook at main. tighten back main halyard with winch then use winch on boom to tighten rear reefing point that leads to (forgot name) in front of winch on boom. Fairly old school setup.
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sorry, forgot about stay sail.
ours is stock. I want to go to furling on it but just have old self tacking boom and haven't gotten to it yet. Have two reef points on sail but only one setup and we have never used it. a more modern arrangement would probably sail better but this thing actually does amazingly well as is. The boom is in the way a lot of the time of the forward hatch or getting around on foredeck, but hey it is a sailboat and has stuff all over the place to stub your toes on or trip you or knock you right of the boat.
so we should just get over it right
lol
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Thanks, Scott
I like the idea of the self tending staysail boom, but whenever the staysail needs replacing I'll see if the roller doesn't make more sense.
I am not sure if my prospective boat has a winch on the boom or blocks for pulling in the tack. Will see when I do the sea trial.
Fair winds,
Bob
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I am planning on furler with the existing boom.. maybe a nice combination.. not sure how well it would work Probably introduce to much tension between stay and boom but fun to play with.
scott
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My original staysail was a handkerchief and hanked on to boot so I've been looking into used sails and discussing it with my sailmaker (Mack Sails in Stuart, Fl). There's two brothers that run the place: one says I have to have a boom to maximize the length of the foot on the staysail, make the thing as big as possible because with a boom you can go past the sheet track, the other says forget the boom, you'll be much happier and safer. When I put in the new traveler I put it just slightly ahead of the mast, maybe 12" so you could still fit through so I'm not so worried about losing foot length but I did want to try things without the boom as mine was like a crane derrick; massive and more suited for handing out concussions then a boom.
I'm going to try the loose foot with a roller furling first, see if it sets as well as advertised. I like Carl's description of tacking up the river with just the staysail. I'm hoping the combination of the mizzen, main and staysail will make that even more viable but like everything, I'm just going to stop researching and get a new, larger loose footed staysail made. 9 oz roller furler.
I also pushed the inner stay out to the end of that little "nose" that sticks out below the bowsprit. The sailmaker, the brother who favors the staysail boom, strongly suggested moving that out to increase the size of the staysail since the big genny was overpowered in 15 to 18 which is pretty dependable here in the winter so theoretically I'll be down to staysail, main and mizzen in anything over 18 which is fine by me
.
I understand that tacking the big genny with such a tiny slot will be impossible without a bowman but there you go; one thing gets harder,the other gets better.
Rick
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