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Wow this is pretty bold of me, I never started a new topic before!
I've reviewed the information on the site about anchor windlass/chain locker descriptions and how folks had configured their various locker arrangements. These are older posts and I never saw a fresh topic on this.
I'm in the process of putting the chain locker back together on my DE32. The original setup had 2 chain deck pipes (on either side of the bowsprit) directly above the anchor locker forward of the v-berth bulkhead. One of the chain pipe covers had PVC pipe leading down at an angle so that it passed through the bulkhead quite near the point it intersects with the berth platform, and then through the platform (quite near the bulkhead) and into the space under the berth. The other chain deck pipe had no additional pipe and so fed directly into the chain locker. The winch had been mounted on the bowsprit such that the chain fell straight down from the gypsy into the chain pipes.
I have been told that this won't work correctly (and this seems to be borne out in some of the older posts). The thought is that the chain piles up below and then backs up the hole. I wonder what others are doing currently? Maybe it would work just not all the time? Maybe others have mounted their windlass locations to allow for alternate feeds to the space below the v-berth?
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I'm interested in this also. I'm a few months away from getting to that part of the boat as we fix stuff up but I know that I need to go through the anchors and chain locker with a microscope. Right now there is only one chain pipe that goes into the chain locker on starboard just under the manual anchor windlass that is bolted on top of the bowsprit. My chain when I glanced at it isn't in great shape. I have two large anchors on the bowsprit, one all chain that feeds through the windlass and to the chain locker and a second large anchor that has bout 40 ft of chain and then maybe a 150 ft of rode that is just stored on deck. The chain rode combination is what Angela has always used to my knowledge. I don't like the chain/rode combination being stored the way it is on deck. I have seen it spontaneously come undone and jump off the boat one day in 8 to 10 ft short steep seas and start to head for the bottom. We were lucky in that Zsanic was able to get to the bow and stop it from hitting the bottom and grabbing. (lot more to the story. call this the micro mini version) If it had all kind of bad stuff could have happened to us. Now that it is Zsanic and mine's boat we will be addressing that. Not sure what we are going to do yet but we will be doing something.
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Hey Scott, we have the same feed to the area below the vberth and the chain backs up about 75% of the time, 100% of the time when we've used lots of scope.
Right now we have about 300' or chain but I'm seriously considering chopping the chain in half (and adding rode) and using the original locker instead.
-Tom
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I think that I am going to play with this the next time I am on the boat. Just drop most of the anchor and rode and then bring it back up and see what happens 🙂
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Thanks Tom, that is just what we've been hearing. Darn! I wish this simple solution would work well, but it seems it doesn't. And the small chain locker just won't hold 300' of chain, which is what I have as well.
I wonder if anyone has engineered any other sort of chain feed?
last night we were on the boat discussing the possibilities of creating some sort of chain race, either on the deck or below decks, and using and electric windlass to pull the chain through the race to the point where it could drop vertically into the under berth locker. But that sounds like a lot of engineering. I do like simple.
Scott M
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I am thinking about putting a crate of some sort for the port chain and anchor line on deck to hold it securely. The starboard anchor I will just have to play with and figure something out. I think I need to replace the chain also 🙁 that is going to suck I have the feeling. That or take it and get it de-rusted and re-galvanized. If anyone knows a cheap source of good chain let us know 🙂
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The way I'm thinking about this at the moment is that I rarely need 300' of chain, so 150' plus some nylon should do the trick and reduce some of the porpoising that to some extent goes with the good looking nose.
Obviously it backs up because engineering a decent drop below to pull it through is nigh on impossible ( another function of that bow form).
Not sure about adding mechanical assistance, seems like another thing to break, or malfunction at a critical time (like when you need to drop the hook in a hurry).
Right now I'm probably going to do nothing, other projects are filling the immeadiate furture, but next time I'm left with a pile of muddy chain on the deck....
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Scott Maxwell said: "I wonder if anyone has engineered any other sort of chain feed?"
My DE38 also has 2 chain pipes (on either side of the bowsprit) directly above the chain locker. I removed them, epoxied the raw edge of the deck core, rotated them 180º so the chain now leads aft, up and over the chain pipe covers to avoid intake of water, rebedded (with 5200) and bolted them down.
I installed an approx. 4” diam. hose leading down from the port chain pipe so that it passed through the bulkhead below the point it intersects with the berth platform and into the space under the berth. “Padded” the sides of the hull with Dri-Dek and 150’ of chain with 100’ of rode fits quite easily with room to spare - drains onto the top of the keel then into the bilge and lowers the load in the bow. The downside... it has to be manually pulled into its locker by reaching in via the forward hatch in the top of the v-berth. This is for the CQR and the bitter end is tied off.
The other 150’ of chain and 100’ of rode (for the Bruce) drops, from the windlass, directly through the starboard chain deck pipe and, despite a 45º PVC angle-pipe attached beneath, piles up in the anchor locker and has to be moved with the (manual) windlass handle (through the pipe). Another answer is, move the windlass and deck pipe(s) aft over the deepest part of the anchor locker immediately in front of the bulkhead.
Please, I beg of you, no milk crates of chain on deck while at sea.
Martin – DE38 Cutter s/v Eclipse
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I thought about the crate as I have a friend with a Cabo Rico 38 that just has a shallow well in the foredeck with a teak grate over the top of it that his chain and rode goes into.
I am actually thinking now about an on deck windlass with steel cable that is spooled onto a large drum. I know some people that have been using the ondeck windlass and spool for their cruising boats for the last 20 years and they seem to think it is very tough, and reliable as well as easy to deal with and store. I think they copied what some of the northern pacific fishing boats were using. Does anyone here have any experience with using steel cable rather than chain for anchoring? I think they use chain on the end of the steel cable and sometimes weights hooked to it near the anchor. Also, large nylon snubbers the same as you would use for chain.
Or maybe a anchor line made out of Dyneema Dux (dynex dux). I was reading a thread the other day on a rigging site about anchoring and they started talking about chain vs nylon vs dyneema dux. Dyneema dux or (dynex dux) is really easy to handle and very light.. You could spool 600 ft of it easily on a small spool. 9mm dyneema dux rope has a 26,527 lb break strength and a 4,800 lb working load. It floats, is very abrasion resistant. about 1900 dollars for a 600 ft spool of it.
Here is a table with common sizes of it.
| Splice-able: Yes | Full Spools: Not Available | ||
| Size | Tensile Strength | Weight in Lbs/100 ft. | |
| Inches | Millimeters | ||
| 3/16 | 5 | 10,494 | TBD |
| 9/32 | 7 | 16,411 | 2.28 |
| 3/8 | 9 | 26,527 | 3.62 |
| 7/16 | 11 | 40,465 | 5.57 |
Here is a link to a really good write up by a guy that is using it for his standing rigging on his trimaran.
http://www.boatdesign.net/foru.....29090.html
the best prices I have been able to find on this stuff is from here http://www.dynexdux.com/index.cfm it is less than half of what west marine wants for it. Though you could probably try price matching with west marine 🙂 I have found that they will match just about any price.
Annapolis rigging is selling it here by the spool or ft for just a hair more than the above site. http://www.dynexdux.net/Dynexdux.php
It would be fun to play with. I wish I had more money than sense so I could buy some just to test it. 🙂
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This is a rather old thread that maybe is more interesting now that dyneema dux has gotten cheaper. The problem is that it is very very slippery, from what I understand, you can't winch it with a normal winch because it will not grip. So that is a consideration. One thing for sure is that if the synthetic ever breaks, it won't snap back, it will part without exploding. A wire for sure would be very dangerous if it ever broke and exploded back under load (meaning, it might cut someone in half).
Also I believe dyneema dux floats. I don't know if that is a consideration for anchor rode.
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I read where the fishing fleets in the pacific northwest went to dyneema dux for the cables for the fish nets and crab traps etc.... they loved it for the durability and extra safety from lash back... downside is that it stretches less and when wrapped around the spools on deck under tension it was cracking and buckling the steel spools as it wrapped onto them. They had to reinforce the spools it was wrapping onto.. opinion was that it decreased costs due to longevity and increased safety as well as being easier to use/handle.
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The bottom line on this question has to fall on where you plan to do your anchoring. Here on the West coast, I would not go without my chain, whereas on the East coast I've heard you could just about used thread and get away with it.
I've had night when I was wondering if the chain would hold so I don't think I'll go with anything less. I've known folks that have gone for years on gear that I would not use for a lunch hook but I would rather get a good nights sleep and not worry about if I should have sprung for the more costly solution.
The chain will slide down a Gutter better than a pipe because it won't jam as it starts pilling up in one spot. Gravity will take over once the little pile that gets jammed, gets big enough so that its own weight takes it down. Hope that makes sense.
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Yep there is something comforting about chain for the abrasion resistance.. it isn't really that strong really but you can rub coral or rock against it forever and it will just keep going.
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