I do have an anti-siphon loop in the bilge outlet line because it could be an unsafe installation without one. I say could be because if you are plumbed in to the sink, the two drains in the sink also will act as an anti-siphon on the system, so adding a dedicated anti-siphon loop makes it triple redundant. The anti-siphon loop is mounted on the the inside, starboard side of the galley sink structure, so it's nearly at the center line of the boat and always above the water line.

The only issue I originally found was that bilge water would back up in to the sink when the pump ran. The water would then drain out but having bilge water in your sink, even for a short time, is not ideal. So between where the bilge line T's in to the drain, and the sink drains, I put a flapper style check valve to keep the bilge water out of the sink as much as possible. The check valve is not in line with the bilge water's path overboard, it's between the T and the sink (installing a check valve in a bilge outlet line is sometimes used to prevent back flow, but is generally regarded as a bad idea).

I may one day re-route the bilge pump outlet to a dedicated above the waterline thru-hull, but that will have to be combined with some other large project. For now, T-ing in to the sink drain, with the anti-siphon loop and check valve, seems to be doing a good job.

Got it.  As I thought.  I'll tear it apart and see what is wrong.  Must have buggered the diaphragm when it ran dry.  Plus old age.   Stay tuned.

Yeah, I concluded that connecting to any drain would be unwise.

I'll keep the existing port in the transom as long as that works.  (next to the engine exhaust).  

I got new hose which I;ll try to run upwards all the way to avoid air traps.

Want to get the Jabsco diaphragm pump serviced as well.  I could place the switch for that one higher in the bilge to act as backup.

Eventually I'll get there and then get back to other (planned) tasks.

Fair winds.

Bob

I have seen it done onto deck and then drains through scuppers but this seems a good way to get nastiness on deck.

One step forward and two steps backward!

I made the stick and platform for the new pump and worked out the wiring.  In the end I just left the Manual/Off/Auto panel alone and used the existing wires to the new pump and new float (solid state) switch.  Had a few issues with the length of the stick (not long enough) and the platform (too long) but that's easy to fix.

Got the pump in the bilge pit and wired up....It ran but nothing came out of the exit port.  I guess its an air lock in the long tube going from the bilge through the engine room and out the transom.  (by the way...I did test the pump in a bucket of water to confirm that the pump and float switch work properly)

Now planning to put a new hose run more carefully to go continuously up hill and hope that works.

Also wondering (and here is the question for you experts) why not run the exit hose to the drain from the sink in the galley?  Yes, that goes through a through-hull fitting with shut off valve, but I generally leave that open.  I'll try the new hose out to the transom first as I know that is preferred (as long as it works).

Thanks for listening.

For what it's worth...

When I started to clean out the central bilge pit I took the suction line out of the water and thereafter could not get the diaphragm pump to draw water.  I thought these things were self priming.  I even crawled back to the pump and filled the line with water but nothing worked.  Maybe I messed up the pump it self.

So I went to plan C.  Just put a new pump in the bilge pit.  I bought a Johnson 1000 gph unit mainly because it was the greatest capacity with a 3/4" port (which is the size of the suction line (which I'll take off the pump and hook on to the old discharge line so I can keep the existing )).

I am in the process of making a new stick and platform for the pump and solid state switch.  Now I just have to figure out the wiring and connect the old suction line to the old discharge line and it should work.  I'll see how this goes.  It was the quickest way to get something working.  Someday I may get a larger pump to place above this one with a larger capacity and 1 1/8" discharge line.  I didn't do that now since the larger line will need a larger through hull which I really can't do with the boat in the slip.

I'll post some photos when I have the new bits put together.

Understood, but how would you keep the lowest pump in place?  On the stick?

I was thinking to use the Jabsco as the primary pump, for day to day drips, but maybe the filter box is too large for that.  Also it needs to be held in place.

In my plan the larger pump would be higher on the stick, where you would have the third pump. 

I am thinking that this upper pump should be about 2000 gph with a separate switch, probably the solid state variety.

Cheers

so small pump is for day to day drips and such. small power draw..

next one up is if the small one is falling behind and water rises.

Stuff is really not good the jabsco comes on or if something happens to wiring for first pair.

Manual pump in foot well large volume..

Engine driven pump on a mechanical clutch for the ocean is coming in and we are sinking.

lol.. you asked.

My bilge pumping system is in need of maintenance and probably upgrading and I have found this thread to be very helpful.  Still, I have a number of fundamental questions such as the number of pumps, the pumping capacity of the pumps and the plumbing that goes with them.

I have found a few articles, most of which recommend (for a 40' boat) having two or even three pumps with capacities of up to 3700 gph!   Then there is the question of tube sizes and types, check valves and anti siphon loops!   I'd appreciate having some real-world experience feed back from DE38 owners on these points.

My setup is like Scott's with a Jabsco diaphragm pump (500 gph?) on the bulkhead aft of the engine and batteries with a Rule-type float switch on a board which goes down into the much discussed well next to the galley.  My float switch seems to be dodgy so I intend to replace it with the solid state Johnson switch.  With no moving parts this seems ideal, but is it reliable in the long run?   I will also add a coarse strainer on the inlet hose.   Should I have a check valve or loop in the discharge line? 

Those will be my first steps, but it seems highly recommended to have at least one back up pump.  My thought is to get a pump (probably 2000 gph) with automatic float switch built in and place it in the aforementioned well (hopefully mounted on the same board as the float switch). I would run the discharge line (how big? check valve?  anti siphon loop?) under the engine and tie into the existing discharge line from the Jabsco pump and out the existing through-hull in the transom. I might have to enlarge that hole but would rather do that than put a second hole in the transom.  

As you others have done, I should clean out the bilge itself and appreciate the comments already made, but am not too happy about discharging soapy, oily water into my marina's water.  I guess I could rig up a bucket under the discharge fitting to capture this gunk. Any thoughts on that side of the operation? 

Thanks in advance to any who can help with these basic issues.

Fair winds

I have been busy working on my 38 Cutter/Ketch, sorry just saw your note regarding the bilge situation.  I agree that access under the galley sink is probably the only way to get to that deep "bilge pit" . I have attempted to clean the pit from that spot, but it is VERY difficult. I have since given up with installing anything in that area. What I did was mount a diaphram pump on the bulkhead in the engine compartment. Then I ran a hose and strainer down under the engine, as that area was a bit easier to get to. The pump will pump from the bottom no problem and the discharge hose was run out through the transom. The pump is only 7L /min so it really is just a maintenance pump not for emergency use, but it is easy to bring up the strainer to clean when necessary, and the pump is located up high where it's very easy to get at.  I do need to install another bilge pump for emergency use, but haven't done that yet. I also have the Whale gusher manual pump as you do.

All the best,

John

Good to see another Ketch owner on the site.

Here is a link to a previous post: http://downeasteryachts.com/fo.....lge-access

I removed my original bilge pump a few years back and it was nearly impossible to reach. 

I was able to get access via the cupboard under the galley sinks. It is really tight but I was able to fit half my torsoe down there ( my wife held my legs) and with the help of a knife tapped to a stick get under the  plastic board that the pump was attached to. The old plastic/perspex pulled out of the rusted screws that attached it to the hull then I just pulled on the pipe work and wires, cut some of it to enable me to remove the pump out under the sinks and the rest from the engine room. Beware of low oxygen levels due to poor air circulation and possible fuel/oil etc in the bilge area. Treat it the same as any other confined space job.

It looked to me like it was an original installation before the cabin floor went on. I replaced it with the method Scott mentioned (pump on a stick) and also put another on a float switch on the higher part of our bilges which would only kick in if the main bilge was overflowing.

I've also got the original Whale Gusher 10 if the power shuts down.

Good luck, I still get shivers down my spine when I think of how uncomfortable and hard to get that bloody pump was.

Dave