Downeaster Yachts.com - Forum: Engines and Such http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such Simple:Press Version 5.6.7 BaronSamedi on Gear Box Ratio and Prop RPM DE 38 http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/gear-box-ratio-and-prop-rpm-de-38#p4021 Engines and Such http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/gear-box-ratio-and-prop-rpm-de-38#p4021 I am about to buy a new inboard to replace my Volvo Penta 2003. I also have installed a new prop shaft and prop, cutlass bearing. At the moment I am looking at the Yanmar 40hp common rail that has great reviews of the Beta 38 hp. I am a bit concerned about lightning surges blowing the electronics of the yanmar but I love how efficient and quiet they are. Any input to help with this decision would be welcome.

The reason the this post is that I need to work out the required prop speed WOT. Each engine has different RPM and I need to work out the gearbox ratio required. I hope someone can help me. I have owned this boat for a year now, the honey moon is over and we are still in love. Hence treating her to a new shiny engine. See you all out there. R.

Also what is S/30 A/30 and R30 on the engine spec sheet? Thanks.

]]> Wed, 01 Sep 1926 03:51:00 -0400 Ray on R /S designation http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/r-s-designation#p4019 Engines and Such http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/r-s-designation#p4019 Hello all, anyone know what the R/S designation is with regard to the prop specs in the owners manual. Thanks. DE 38 Anastasis.

]]> Tue, 09 Aug 2022 22:20:14 -0400 Ray on How to Replace Engine Batteries on Downeaster 32 - the "easy way" http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/how-to-replace-engine-batteries-on-downeaster-32-the-easy-way#p4018 Engines and Such http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/how-to-replace-engine-batteries-on-downeaster-32-the-easy-way#p4018 Done this on my 38' have been thinking of making an access door from quarter birth, any thoughts?

]]> Fri, 24 Jun 2022 20:05:40 -0400 Scott Maxwell on How to Replace Engine Batteries on Downeaster 32 - the "easy way" http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/how-to-replace-engine-batteries-on-downeaster-32-the-easy-way#p4016 Engines and Such http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/how-to-replace-engine-batteries-on-downeaster-32-the-easy-way#p4016 Good one Jonathan, I did a version of that just recently when replacing the Group 27s on Amatheia. They are certainly a bit heavy and this makes it so that one person can get the job done!

]]> Sun, 15 May 2022 14:22:46 -0400 weswsimpson on Farymann 29R30 available in San Carlos for a few days only http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/farymann-29r30-available-in-san-carlos-for-a-few-days-only#p4012 Engines and Such http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/farymann-29r30-available-in-san-carlos-for-a-few-days-only#p4012 Working, complete, pulled and available for a few days until I drive north to Tucson.

]]> Thu, 24 Mar 2022 23:19:01 -0400 Jonathan Oasis on How to Replace Engine Batteries on Downeaster 32 - the "easy way" http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/how-to-replace-engine-batteries-on-downeaster-32-the-easy-way#p4009 Engines and Such http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/how-to-replace-engine-batteries-on-downeaster-32-the-easy-way#p4009 Picture

 

Downeaster 32 Sailboat Engine Battery ReplacementImage Enlarger

]]> Tue, 30 Mar 1926 08:21:44 -0500 Jonathan Oasis on How to Replace Engine Batteries on Downeaster 32 - the "easy way" http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/how-to-replace-engine-batteries-on-downeaster-32-the-easy-way#p4008 Engines and Such http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/how-to-replace-engine-batteries-on-downeaster-32-the-easy-way#p4008 This is what I have discovered as the 'easiest method' of replacing batteries in the engine room of a Downeaster, when the batteries are stored on the shelf behind the engine.   The big Group 27 or larger batteries are tooooo heavy to safely pass over the engine.  So the solution:  Get some wood planks and temporarily place them between the battery shelf and the front of the engine.  The wood planks make a shelf from stern to forward.  Tie them down or together as needed for stability.  Crawl into engine compartment, lift the battery onto the wood planks.  Tie a line around the battery, make sure that tension will pull the battery in a centered direction.  Crawl out of engine compartment to the front of the engine then inch the battery forward along the planks by pulling the line.  When the battery reaches the front of the engine then it can be lifted up using arm strength to set on the cabin sole.  Then untie the line from the battery, close the engine compartment, and lift the battery by hand into the cockpit.   The reverse procedure is used to install new batteries except placing the batteries on the planks just requires pushing the battery aft with hands along the planks until it reaches the battery shelf, then crawl into the compartment to lift the battery into place.

]]> Tue, 30 Mar 1926 08:13:46 -0500 Scott Carle on S/V Oasis is going to convert to electric motor from Universal diesel http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/sv-oasis-is-going-to-convert-to-electric-motor-from-universal-diesel#p3959 Engines and Such http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/sv-oasis-is-going-to-convert-to-electric-motor-from-universal-diesel#p3959 Throwaway thoughts

Solar.. To get a full 19kwh charge on a average day I would think 4kw of solar. I don't see you realistically fitting that much on there.  You could realistically fit 700 or 800 watts on a hard dodger. 300 over dingy davits and have 600 port and 600 starboard hanging on hinges on the push pit which you would need to extend a little forward to give you enough length. 300 ish watt panels are average 36 inches by about 5 ft in length. You could also build a arch over pilot chair that main boom traveler goes on and extend it a bit aft to put another 600 watts or so on. It would clean aft cockpit up on deck 🙂 and give you places to attach nice enclosure for rain etc.. that brings you close to 3000 watts.. or 3kw  .. you might on a miraculous day get 2.8kw out of it. so maybe 2.8 x 8 hours of reasonable sun will give you about 22 kw hrs. You will not get that. The panels on the dodger are constantly being partially shaded by boom and mast. Any all the ones aft of there will do pretty well.. but will only get max capacity which is still not whats advertised for about 4 hours nearest noon or sun over head in the summer. Winter you lose some capacity as all your panels will be mounted repetitively flat. I think based on my experience if you got 3000 watts of solar installed in those locations that you would get about 10 to 12 kw hrs a day.. so figure a day and a half to charge batteries from a 100% discharge. However if you are using lead acid your only going to 50% at most before you destroy the batteries. Even LiPO that you can technically discharge to 100% you shouldn't.. at most I would do 80% and as a rule would keep it to 50% on a normal day. You absolutely want a MPPT controller or even better a pair of MPPT controllers that can work together or switched between to give some redundancy. Normally I would say maybe more expense than needed but if it affects your primary propulsion I would go for redundancy.. Also over spec all the wiring. If someone installs this for you they are going to go by standard wiring recommendations. Which are around a 5% drop.. this causes heat and losses at the end of the cables. If you over spec everything from the solar to charge controller, charge controller to batteries and especially batteries to engine you will over all gain a couple percent efficiency through the whole system and make any possibility of overheating of components much less. Lots of tricks you can do.. Do protect at appropriate places with circuit breakers... I'm not a fan of fuses that I have to physically replace. If something happens that throws a breaker but I need go juice right the "Blank" now I would like to be able to flip a switch and run a reduced capacity if I can  versus having nothing. On valkyr every single battery + cable had its own independent circuit breaker so that if a battery died or was giving problems I could remove it and run on 3 batteries instead of 4 etc... with a 48volt system that is going to be harder to due unless you have each battery being 48 volts. However you get the idea. If I had a 48 volt motor I would try and build a 48 volt electrical system and then run a 12volt inverter to pull power out for house loads. There is the potential with the correct motor that if you batteries died or your charge controller died that you could with the sun shining feed power directly from solar to motor for limited power. Ok.. my head is hurting so I am going to assume yours is to at this point.. a lot of things to think about.

 

Generator.... i have seen more than one write-up of 30ft ish and smaller electric boats able to run off a small Honda generator at 3 to 4 knots. A couple of the new generation stack-able generators at a couple kw each that you can use one or both to double your power output would be a great system other than dealing with gas 🙂 most of them are now 4strokes and run very quiet. Honda's being exceptionally so.

 

I would go to the trouble of creating a waterproof box for the batteries.. Maybe just build it in using the inside sides of the keel space there as part of the box. make sure to leave more than adequate drainage past/under it though. Access will be great. I am proof that flooding can happen. standard sealed batteries would not be hurt going underwater.. however any more advanced one would be as they almost all have electronics/circuit boards integrated nowadays.

 

Also your chargers, shore, solar, inverters etc.. should all be as high as you can get them. I would recommend high up on the starboard side inside the engine compartment on the bulkhead between the pilot berth and the engine compartment and against the end of the foot well facing out the engine compartment when companionway steps are opened.

 

With the engine out and that area cleaned up and a much smaller electric motor I'm wondering what you could do with that area? another little pilot berth back there. The ability to put a grate in you can walk on to get back there?

 

I have seen companionways modified so that the hing on the starboard side instead of lifting up and attaching to the cabin top when up.. It makes it easier to access that space and leaves companionway opening clear when your in the engine compartment. The one I saw had a 4 or 5 ish foot piano hinge same as comes standard but longer to fit a side opening companionway ladder instead of a lifting one. Instead of the latch on overhead to keep it open it had one on the chart table to hold it against the chart table in the open position.

 

Speed... you want to run the biggest prop you can and gear the electric motor down so that at max output it is turning that prop the most efficient calculated rpms. Electric motors will kick your diesels ass at torque which allows you to run a bigger prop..... BUT.... you have to gear it so that it doesn't strain the electric motor at full output and cause it to over heat. It's a balancing act. Some sort of active cooling shroud ducting air around the motor would be a nice feature I don't see people doing in their electric conversions. Make sure that any motor  you get is rated at 100% duty rating. Or that your usage allows you to de-rate it to a setting that allows it a 100% duty rating. Unless you get a folding prop or even better a folding and tilt adjustable prop you are going to lose some sailing speed to the drag unless you let it free wheel and maybe even run your electric motor a a couple % to remove drag. There are some really interesting things you can do with an electrically driven prop like using it under sail at 5 to 10% capacity that you don't notice it running but it gives you a 1/2 not better speed and allows you to point a few percentage points higher due to the extra air flow over the sails. Don't get caught do that while racing 🙂 lol.

]]> Sat, 03 Jul 2021 14:31:12 -0400 Jonathan Oasis on S/V Oasis is going to convert to electric motor from Universal diesel http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/sv-oasis-is-going-to-convert-to-electric-motor-from-universal-diesel#p3955 Engines and Such http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/sv-oasis-is-going-to-convert-to-electric-motor-from-universal-diesel#p3955 The air-cooled electric motor is rated for 20 kW, the battery bank needs to match that, 48V at 400 Ah, recommended 19kWh total.   Any hints on the amount of solar real estate needed to charge a 19 kW bank in 24 hrs?  (Well, a 24hr day only having sun for half the day, and usable sun for less than that too, immediately puts a restriction on time.)    Or what size solar panels would be reasonable to start looking at for the DE32's available space?   Obviously a hard dodger needs to be added into the plan I guess. 

A quote from the engineering document for DE32 displacement & hull speed: "With a 19kWh battery bank, you will see a 20NM range at 4kts with reserve."

Ultimately I believe I will have to add a generator, which would be diesel, so the diesel tank will stay as-is, although the size of the tank is overkill, maybe I will also add a diesel heater to repurpose the tank too.  The generator would be one of the newer small box models.  Another quote from the engineering document:   "A 3.5 to 4.5kW generator may support a speed of 3.8 kts".    That means directly, the system becomes a hybrid vehicle, with the diesel generator powering the electric motor rather than needing battery, as long as power does not exceed about 3.8 kts.   I'm not sure how optimistic their engineering specs are, maybe it would be slower than that.    To reach near fastest sailing speed (5.5 kt) on generator alone would require a 10kW genset with this motor which is much too large to fit into a DE32 and too expensive anyways.   One of the portable gas generators (like the Honda one) supposedly allows the motor to push at 2.7 kt while the generator supplies 960 W from 20A. 

My previous post said, "Downeaster 32 near Newport Beach has made the conversion to electric, a 20 kW motor."   The vendor gave a new update to say that the build fell through.  So there is not yet a Downeaster which has made the switch to electric as far as I have heard.   Maybe I'll be first, like with my synthetic rigging?   In both cases, being early means much more expense.  The costs are getting more affordable rapidly so the early birds are paying the premium.

 If the diesel tank was removed (difficult in itself), and batteries put in that space instead, the one good thing about the lithium batteries is that they do not need ventilation or heat dissipation (supposedly).  One of my concerns has been whether it is appropriate to place the batteries below the level of the sole.  Because if water ever enters the boat due to unavoidable storm (more like:  when water enters the boat), the batteries should be slightly higher, to be protected and dry.   I believe this is why the battery shelf behind the engine is so high:  to keep the batteries safe.   But maybe with lithium, the batteries could be placed in a water-tight compartment, with a vent which reaches higher up.  Then, any water ingress doesn't destroy all power on the boat.  Very important if it happens on a voyage.

 

]]> Fri, 02 Jul 2021 02:18:29 -0400 Scott Carle on S/V Oasis is going to convert to electric motor from Universal diesel http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/sv-oasis-is-going-to-convert-to-electric-motor-from-universal-diesel#p3951 Engines and Such http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/sv-oasis-is-going-to-convert-to-electric-motor-from-universal-diesel#p3951 So battery storage. On valkyr a DE38 we had a large space between the aft water tank and the fuel tank that would be a great place to put batteries. If you get rid of the diesel motor you can cut out the fuel tank and use that space also for batteries. moves the weight more toward middle of boat and lower.

 

Just a thought I always hated the location of the batteries on valkyr.

]]> Thu, 01 Jul 2021 16:48:54 -0400 Jonathan Oasis on S/V Oasis is going to convert to electric motor from Universal diesel http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/sv-oasis-is-going-to-convert-to-electric-motor-from-universal-diesel#p3946 Engines and Such http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/sv-oasis-is-going-to-convert-to-electric-motor-from-universal-diesel#p3946 I have heard from the sales guy I have been talking to, that a Downeaster 32 near Newport Beach has made the conversion to electric, a 20 kW motor.   I still have this in my plans.  I will go with one of the Lithium battery vendors which is recommended by the electric motor company.

 

More pictures to follow.  It is a long term project and many other boat projects to take care of first.  

 

Last year (or year before? Lockdown has made time strange), the recommended local diesel mechanics gave me a rough quote of about $6,000 to fix (repack/replace) my stuffing box because "we'll have to yank the engine out, using an A-frame, and set it in the cabin forward, to get back there to work on it."   No way I'm going for that, although the stuffing box is very tough to reach being underneath the muffler and underneath the fiberglass battery shelf.   So in fact, converting to electric will save me a big hassle and/or cost in this regard. 

 

I crawled behind the engine today (inside engine 'room') to check out where I could place the 16 batteries.  There seems to be plenty of room (all sizes assuming Group 27 form factor): 

- the factory-made battery shelf holds 4 batteries on top of the shelf.

- the factory-made battery shelf has space underneath it, for at least 4 batteries, I believe.

- The fiberglass ledge to the port side of the engine (where I currently have a hot water tank-heater, just outside of the alternator) has a huge empty space underneath, at least 2 batteries can fit underneath the ledge. 

- 2 batteries can fit to the starboard side of the motor after engine is removed.

- 2 batteries can fit to the starboard-aft side of the motor after engine, diesel filters, and raw water intake are removed.

So that is 14 so far, and total of 16 (I believe) is needed, but there is still extra space to be found in nearby places. 

Which the many batteries can be:   a) mounted low in the boat for good center of gravity;   b) mounted aft in the boat for better weight distribution;  c) located very close to the motor for shorter cable run which saves $$ on cable and should also be better voltage efficiency.

Currently, Oasis has 4 batteries in a battery tray located under the small aft berth and 1 battery on the engine room battery shelf.  This was done by a previous owner I suppose to "allow easy access to water the batteries" but it still isn't much easier than the engine room shelf, and it uses the entire locker space, which is normally quite large. 

]]> Wed, 30 Jun 2021 23:20:16 -0400 jimha on DE32 Repower: Petite Putt-Putt or Muscle Car? http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/de32-repower-petite-putt-putt-or-muscle-car#p3882 Engines and Such http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/de32-repower-petite-putt-putt-or-muscle-car#p3882 I re-powered my DE38 in 1995 from a Faryman R30 to a Lister 3 cylinder 30 hp fresh water cooled engine.  Have put many hours on engine since I have an  engine driven refrigeration.  So far the engine has performed well.  Some good points were that you could purchase the engine with the proper bell housing to fit the hearth transmission found on the ferryman.  The engine is very smooth and quiet.  Another good point was that the engine can run at an angle of up to 20 degrees.  It also has self bleeding injectors if you should get air in the system.  The installed hand pump in the front of the engine is a nice convenience when changing oil.   A bad point was that I had to rebuild my motor mounts to fit there flexible motor mounts.  What helped a lot was to make a template with the flexible motor mounts on a piece of plywood that represented the engine.  This was used to get the wood and fiberglass mounts just right.

Cheers,

Jim

]]> Fri, 28 Nov 1924 01:49:41 -0500 thriveme on DE32 Repower: Petite Putt-Putt or Muscle Car? http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/de32-repower-petite-putt-putt-or-muscle-car#p3864 Engines and Such http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/de32-repower-petite-putt-putt-or-muscle-car#p3864 Did you have it installed? How do you like it? 

I am looking for a good solutions to replace the original engine.

]]> Fri, 10 Oct 1924 13:08:29 -0500 jlynker on DE32 Repower: Petite Putt-Putt or Muscle Car? http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/de32-repower-petite-putt-putt-or-muscle-car#p3858 Engines and Such http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/de32-repower-petite-putt-putt-or-muscle-car#p3858 After several discussions, including some electric motor considerations, I'm going with a Beta 30 and a PYI Max-Prop Easy, 3 blade feathering prop.

Factors: Weight, price, engine physical size, ability to long-distance coastal cruise (Alaska from Puget Sound) and take advantage of the DE32 light air capabilities.

Thanks,

John

]]> Wed, 09 Sep 2020 11:03:14 -0400 jlynker on S/V Oasis is going to convert to electric motor from Universal diesel http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/sv-oasis-is-going-to-convert-to-electric-motor-from-universal-diesel#p3857 Engines and Such http://downeasteryachts.com/forums/engines-and-such/sv-oasis-is-going-to-convert-to-electric-motor-from-universal-diesel#p3857 Love that you're going Electric!

Years ago, in discussion with Nigel Calder at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival, he highly recommended this company:

Scott McMillan
President/CTO
E L E C T R I C Y A C H T
http://www.electricyacht.com
C L E A N • G R E E N • Q U I E T
763-370-2610

Not sure where they stand today, but anything Nigel Calder has to say pops to the top of my considerations. DE38 is listed as one of the boats they have a suitable motor installation for:
https://electricyacht.com/find-your-boat/

Also found this information:
https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/

Hope this helps and Good Luck!

John

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