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Windlass, Chain Type and Size for DE38?
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bobmcd625
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May 10, 2016 - 10:52 pm
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Another item high on my to-do list is to add a windlass and probably a new lot of chain.  The 45lb CQR anchor that came with the boat should be fine, but the rode of (maybe) 50' of 5/16" chain and (maybe) 100 ft of line is surely undersized.

Looking at windlasses I am thinking I need 1000 lb max pull based on the formula of 4 x the weight of the anchor and chain. So, a 45 lb anchor plus 200 ft of chain would fit.  Some people say that 3 x is enough.  Any comments?

For the windlass, the Lofrans Cayman seems to fit the bill at around $2 grand.  Lewmar have cheaper units, but I hear they are not reliable.

As to chain I know nothing about BBB vs HT or size.  5/16" seems to be about right, but don't have any real basis for this.

So again, I open the discussion to my learned co-owners.

Many thanks in advance.

Bob

CryWink

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KachemakRa
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May 18, 2016 - 2:06 am
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Dolphin, DE 32, I added a Lewmar Pro Series (fishing-type) windlass. It works fine, Does not have the versatility of a duel horizontal, but OK and affordable.

The challenge I have is with the chain, even the rope, feeding itself down into the chain locker beneath the V-berth bunks. Therefore, I have to remove all bedding, take-off at least one, if not both cushions, as I pull anchor. Clearly not an optimum situation.

Does anyone have a solution?

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bobmcd625
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May 18, 2016 - 12:00 pm
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Thanks for that tip.  Lewmar windlass looks fine and are, as you say, much less $$ than, for example, Lofrans.

Solutions to chain pileup are not pretty or simple.  Tubing of some sort leads the chain to the space under the V berth.  Seems to be a two man job to stow the chain when raising the anchor.  

Yesterday, I examined my layout more carefully and found another "chain" locker just aft of the main locker under the very front of the V berth.  In my case the rope line ends up there.  If I went to all chain, and made a larger hole between the two lockers I could have chain falling down there pretty easily.  

Strange thing, though that this second chain locker does not drain into the main bilge.  Of course I can drill a large hole to open it up.  Just curious to know if this is standard, or if there was a hole there originally that has been plugged up over the years.

Fun to sort out!!!Wink

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Scott Carle
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May 25, 2016 - 8:38 am
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you do not want it draining to main bilge. this leaves muck and odor the length of the boat. Stuff builds up on and under the water tanks and fuel tank that lead to corrosion. Mine was like that and we put a forward bilge box and lead a hose from that chain locker to the bilge box just under the v berth cabin sole. The shower, bilges and AC system condensate line all lead there and pump overboard close to deck level behind the full length closet on starboard. Bilge is mostly bone dry since we did that.

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Scott Carle DE38 Cutter s/v Valkyr
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bobmcd625
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May 25, 2016 - 8:08 pm
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OK, Scott. That makes good sense and boosts the credibility of the boat maker.

I will keep that locker isolated and just clean it out now and then.

Cheers

Bob

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Scott Carle
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May 26, 2016 - 9:15 am
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lol... I'm not sure I would leave it isolated. In bad seas you will take water over the bow and a fair amount of water will get in the chain locker. We normally get a bit in there in heavy rains also. You need a mechanism to remove that water. Someone had already hacked a hole connecting that to the rest of the boat on mine so I did that forward bilge box. If you don't do something similar I would put a bilge pump in the lowest part of that lower chain locker pumping back overboard. Make sure you put a one way valve in it as you can take water on through the through hull if you put it on the deck or side of boat up near the bow.

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Scott Carle DE38 Cutter s/v Valkyr
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bobmcd625
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June 1, 2016 - 3:27 am
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Scott.

i just meant to follow your advice not to let water from lower chain locker to main bilge. I can see that one needs a way to get accumulated water out. Some boats have a drain hole in the bottom of the chain locker going straight overboard.

back to the drawing board!

bob

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Scott Carle
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June 6, 2016 - 8:17 am
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Only problem with hole in chain locker is that the bottom of our chain lockers is below the waterline :)

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Scott Carle DE38 Cutter s/v Valkyr
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Wundor Star
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June 10, 2016 - 8:42 pm
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Bob, on WundorStar we put the tigress windlass, which we got a smokin deal from Manneys Boat supply. The owner has a DE38, so a lot of the stuff they sell fit rather nicely. I fabed up a platform for it to sit above the bowsprit, with a hawse tube (might be wrong term) for the chain to feed into locker. The tube reduces the egress of water greatly. We run 300' of 5/16. I carry a centinal also. System seems to be working good.  Only wish our style boat had better access to the locker from the deck. Chain pile is the only problem to date. Recommend the bigger windlass though, over the smaller Lofrans. Good Luck Travis

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Travis and Kim

S/V WundorStar

DE 38 Ketch

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Rick
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June 13, 2016 - 3:09 pm
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Did you mean Minney's boat supply in Ca?

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bobmcd625
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June 19, 2016 - 7:31 am
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Rick.  I am sure Travis meant Minneys.  I'll check out their offerings for winches.  I did buy some nice Lewmar sheet winches from them at half price!

Travis.  Tigres does seem the weapon of choice here.  Thanks for the tip.  Curious why you need a platform above the bowsprit.  Does it not fit onto the bowsprit itself?

How do you cope with the chain piling up?

Thanks to all.

Bob

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bobmcd625
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June 20, 2016 - 11:30 am
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Travis

I took a closer look at my bowsprit and see that a Tigres won't fit there easily due to the inner forestay connection, so your platform does make sense.  If you have a photo of it that would be nice. I'll have to look at other windlasses, too.  I know one can be put aft of the bowsprit but then the chain would go right into the forepeak cabin.  

Always something...

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bobmcd625
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June 20, 2016 - 8:26 pm
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Travis

I just checked with Minney's and they still have the Tigres windlass.  I'll call them in the morning.

Looking more closely at what it takes I can see that you need the "platform" on top of the bowsprit.

A photo or sketch of your setup would be most helpful.

Other windlasses of similar power seem to be pretty similar in size so the Tigres maybe the one to get.

Thanks in advance.

Bob

Confused

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jimha
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August 26, 2016 - 12:16 am
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Have had various anchor rode combinations over the 37 years we have owned our DE 38.  We have settled with  200 ft of 3/8  BBB chain that fits our gypsy on a Lofrans Tiger windlass.  The windlass fits on a one inch thick piece of wood on top of the  bowsprit.  The hose pipe is large enough to fit  the winch handle down it to knock down the chain pile up, to save a few trips running down below.  We have a salt water pressure pump attached to the toilet inlet to keep the chain clean.  Have taken this same line and run it to the cockpit for salt water showers and wash down.  The windlass has one O welding cable from a battery below the settee in the bow.  This gives us all the power we need to the windlass, and has been trouble free for 31 years.  We did change the foot switch to a Ideal foot switch which has been trouble free.  We do have the chain secured to the hull by 80 feet of 1/2 inch line.  When on a passage we put the 45 lb CQR down below and put a plug in the hose pipe.  When at anchor I have made a plug for the hose pipe that has a slot in it for the chain   Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Jim

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bobmcd625
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April 29, 2017 - 6:30 pm
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Thanks, Jim, for those good tips.  Sorry for the obviously slow response time, but have been working on other things this past year, notably renewing the instruments.

The Tigres is a great windlass and will probably be my choice, but the Lewmar Pro Series 1000 is tempting due to lower cost.  My immediate needs are for day sailing and occasional overnight so chain plus line should be sufficient although the added security of all chain like you have is undoubtedly the best option in the long run.

Decisions...decisions.

Cheers

Bob

Wink

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bobmcd625
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May 9, 2017 - 11:56 am
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Hi again.

Still debating on which windlass to get.  Like the Tigres but looks its too big for mounting on the bowsprit.  Could mount on the foredeck aft of the bowsprit, but rather in the way and messes up the forepeak berth.  

Now thinking about a vertical windlass just aft of the chain locker.  Could enclose the motor to make it look better.  Anyone out there using a vertical windlass?  If so which make/model?  Have spotted the Anchorlift line which looks nice, but have not found anything about their quality, etc.  Any comments there?

Thanks in advance

Bob

Confused

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jimha
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May 13, 2017 - 3:24 pm
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Have included a few pictures of our 30 yr old Tiger windlass.  No problems yet.  Motor is a Bosh starter motor which requires a lot of power if my memory serves.  Requires single O wire for a short run.  Moved stay sail boom forward and raised about 6 inches.  One inch wood base for windlass is thru bolted to deck.  Once had two of three strands of 3/4 inch nylon cut by one lone rock on sandy bottom.  Lesson learned1-DSCF1289.JPGImage Enlarger

2-DSCF1287.JPGImage Enlarger
to always dive your anchor or switch to all chain.

Cheers and beers

Jim

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bobmcd625
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May 14, 2017 - 4:37 pm
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Thanks  very much, Jim. Very clear explanation and great photos.

I'm not too keen on moving the inner forestay, but judging from your image it's not really a huge issue.

I like your comment on having only chain rode.  I have been thinking of a mixed rode but maybe I'll have to reconsider that.

Fair winds

Smile

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jimha
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May 15, 2017 - 1:04 pm
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Hi Bob,

A picture is worth a thousand words.   If you do get a Tiger windlass, do not get the white one.  The coating will eventually crack from the sun and the water will get underneath the coating and corrode the aluminum.  Also the chain stripper is held on to the windlass by two stainless bolts.  The dissimilar metals will cause corrosion and create a big problem.  I would suggest swapping them out to nylon or aluminum bolts.  If memory serves, there is an O ring between the motor case and gear box.  I added silicone at this joint to keep out water. 

 

Cheers,

Jim

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